Was moving 'The Next Generation' over to movies a bad decision?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree with some of what you are saying. It was the Picard and Data show and every other relationship is missing, with exeception to small moments. However, I think it was a good thing, not the impetus of getting the chip, for Data's character to experience emotion. It made everything new again. For instance, he talks in Devil's Due about not knowing fear for his performance as Scrooge in A Christmas Carol. Juxtapose that conversation with Data telling Picard about the fear he felt as they encountered the Borg in First Contact.

    Geordi and Data have small moments.
    -- In Insurrection, when they talk about destroying Data, Geordi, sitting at the Helm station, turns to Picard and looks completely terrified.
    -- When Data awakens in Insurrection after being captured by Picard and fixed by LaForge, he doesn't say "Commander LaForge? Captain?" He says "Geordi? Captain?"
    -- In Nemesis, after they divert to the Kolaris (Sp?) system, Geordi turns to Data and says "What do you think, Data? Long lost relative?"
    --In Nemesis, Geordi discusses with Data what B-4 would become if Data went ahead with a memory download.
    -- Data says "Counselor Troi, please assume command. Geordi, come with me," just before Data leaves the Enterprise. There is a look between Geordi and Data that wouldn't be there if they weren't friends.

    As for Picard and Crusher, outside of Picard talking about Shinzon and his younger self in Nemesis, you are on point, they don't resemble the same characters.

    Riker and Troi have good moments in re-igniting their romance. Troi is used to know what Shinzon is thinking in Nemesis.

    You are on-point about Picard, however. He's Bruce Willis in these movies, especially First Contact, which is part of the reason why I don't like the film. Insurrection is my favorite of the Picard movies. He uses his mouth, and not shouting across a force-field laced rock-face, to get Golna to help him. He uses his brain to realize he needs another way in to get ahold of Data. "He can fly a ship. He can anticipate tactical strategies. Clearly, his brain is functioning. We've seen how he would respond to threats, I wonder how he would repond to...Mr. Worf do you know Gilbert and Sullivan? Data was rehearsing a performance of HMS Pinafore right before he left."

    Generations was right after the 7th season, and that's where the characters were at the time. There was no lag, no room for growth, between the movies.

    I think people pick at these movies too much. I think pushing Picard as an action-hero was a mistake. Kirk didn't do as much action as Picard did. He personally stopped Soran, fought the Borg by himself, killed Ru'afo with a phaser rifle in his hand, and stabbed Shinzon to death. Data had something to do with the end of First Contact and Nemesis, as well. But Picard is the one in sweat, blood, and tears throughout these films.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    3/4 of TNG movies sucked.

    I would gladly erase all TNG movies from existence, including First Contact, if that meant the series ended with AGT instead of Nemesis.:(
     
  3. SchwEnt

    SchwEnt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^^^ I agree with this sentiment.

    I would have been completely satisfied with TNG ending with AGT. Seeing more TNG at the cinema isn't something that cried out to be made.
     
  4. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In my defense, I've blocked most of Nemesis from my memory. I'd forgotten those Data/Geordi scenes entirely. Okay so, ironically, that's one thing that Nemesis gets right. That and bringing the Riker/Troi relationship to its natural conclusion. :bolian:

    In fact, that marriage brings to mind one thing I'm glad that got swept under the rug once TNG moved to the big screen: the Worf/Troi relationship. That made about as much sense as Chakotay/Seven of Nine.
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I found Generations, First Contact and Nemesis to be entertaining. I can't say the same for much of the TNG TV series. I rewatched TOS, VOY and ENT in the past two years and for the most part enjoyed them, but getting through TNG has been a real struggle.
     
  6. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I mostly agree. Insurrection is the TNG movie, I don't really get any joy out of, and I enjoy the other 3. I watched Enterprise and Voyager (First time watching all the way through, probably missed at least half the episodes when they aired first run) and TNG in the last year, and I mostly enjoyed Voyager and Enterprise. I didn't find it tough to get through TNG, but, there wasn't as many awesome episodes as I remember when I religiously watched every week during first run.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
  7. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Remember, Riker turns to Worf at the end of Insurrection and says: "Do you think when we get away from this metaphasic radiation that it will change the way we feel?"
    And Worf says: "Your feelings about her have not changed since the day I met you, Commander. This place just let them out for a little fresh air." It's a tacit admission of the relationship that he didn't say that to someone else. And remember, Worf is married during that movie, dating Jadzia during First Contact, and widowed when Riker and Troi are married.
     
  8. anh165

    anh165 Commander Red Shirt

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    Commercially it was viable.

    Creatively, no - especially the first TNG movie involved murdering Kirk.
     
  9. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I remember thinking back in '91 after seeing Star Trek VI if they were going to introduce a new movie-only crew for the Enterprise-B in Star Trek VII. Perhaps the new captain would be a young, cocky type that would remind Kirk a lot of himself when he was younger.

    Well, at least I got to see the Enterprise-B in Star Trek VII...
     
  10. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Nemesis also had Deanna make a passing reference to her and Worf dating in their past, but it was one of many scenes that ended up being trimmed from the final cut (and it doesn't appear on the DVD missing scenes package either -- I have no idea if it was ever actually filmed, but it's definitely there in John Logan's original script).
     
  11. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes. Next question? :-)

    Not much more I can say here that hasn't been said. Rightly or wrongly, the moviemaking gods didn't feel that TNG's small screen formula could work on the big screen. Thus, they gutted everything that made TNG such a beloved show and put a standard sci-fi action flick in its place.

    There's nothing wrong with a good sci-fi action flick. As a one-time effort, First Contact was fine. TNG did its occasional action episode too. But the problem was thinking that those were the only kinds of stories they could successfully tell on the big screen.
     
  12. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, I don't think it was a bad decision. I find things to enjoy about all 4 of the TNG movies; sure there are things that could've been improved with hindsight - and "Insurrection" is my least favourite - but I think, as a fan, I would've been far more peeved in they'd said "that's all folks" back in '94.
     
  13. heavy lids

    heavy lids Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. I really like Generations and First Contact. Insurrection is fine and Nemesis is barely tolerable. Of course, they could have been better but it's better than nothing. At least they never got Michael Bay to make Trek movies....
     
  14. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mr. Plinkett TNG film reviews FTW! (Except Generations, which rocks!) :bolian:


    I quite like Generations. First Contact is a terrific movie, but ultimately does more harm to the canon (the unnecessary Borg Queen, Borg being able to time travel with ease) than good. I like the Riker-Troi marriage. And I don't think any of the movies dishonor All Good Things, as Picard seems chummier with the crew than on the show.

    That said, as the other thread has noted, the Dominion War was pretty much a No-Win Scenario for the TNG movies: ignoring it is awkward, working with it would be really tough and awkward.

    In hindsight, the crew should have split up. Maybe the post-Generations sequel should have been about Captain Riker moving to a new ship, or doing a war-related mission with Data and LaForge, with Picard putting in a M-like cameo, since the Enterprise is considered too valuable to wartime morale to endanger. Post-war, I'd also have liked to see a solo Picard movie, either retiring from being a captain or taking an extended sabbatical, and grappling with what sort of personal life awaits him without a family. I really liked the spark between him and Commander Donatra. If they'd met in peacetime, would he have pursued her instead of Bev?

    [​IMG]

    "Open ROWR frequencies."

    Also, it'd have been nice to see something of the UFP besides the cramped and cheap sets of Starfleet vessels. The TOS movies enlarged our view of the society; the TNG movies narrowed it.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2013
  15. Peach Wookiee

    Peach Wookiee Cuddly Mod of Doom Moderator

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    I think if Generations hadn't been rushed, we'd have gotten something much better.
     
  16. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I blame Paramount entirely for how rushed Generations was.

    Patrick Stewart was overworked directing the second to last episode of the series, being in pretty much every single scene of AGT, and was only given a week off being having to be in Generations.

    The studio should have given a cast a year off instead of working them like dogs.
     
  17. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Dear Lord, Meyer is beautiful.

    And that's really all I took away from your post. :p
     
  18. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Then read it again, dang it! I worked at it! :klingon: :lol:

    I quite like Generations. First Contact is a terrific movie, but ultimately does more harm to the canon (the unnecessary Borg Queen, Borg being able to time travel with ease) than good. I like the Riker-Troi marriage. And I don't think any of the movies dishonor All Good Things, as Picard seems chummier with the crew than on the show.

    That said, as the other thread has noted, the Dominion War was pretty much a No-Win Scenario for the TNG movies: ignoring it is awkward, working with it would be really tough and awkward.

    In hindsight, the crew should have split up. Maybe the post-Generations sequel should have been about Captain Riker moving to a new ship, or doing a war-related mission with Data and LaForge, with Picard putting in a M-like cameo, since the Enterprise is considered too valuable to wartime morale to endanger. Post-war, I'd also have liked to see a solo Picard movie, either retiring from being a captain or taking an extended sabbatical, and grappling with what sort of personal life awaits him without a family. I really liked the spark between him and Commander Donatra. If they'd met in peacetime, would he have pursued her instead of Bev?

    Also, it'd have been nice to see something of the UFP besides the cramped and cheap sets of Starfleet vessels. The TOS movies enlarged our view of the society; the TNG movies narrowed it.
     
  19. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    I admit I really like the Picard on sabbatical idea. I just don't see how you'd ever get something like that past the suits.

    I also agree that the TNG movies felt really claustrophobic. It's always been my biggest complaint about them. As I said up thread, they feel like a bunch of grown men playing astronauts and aliens with their toys. They were never epic or grandiose like the TOS films.
     
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    I also really HATED how Data handled in the movies. In Generations they turned him into an annoying idiot with the emotion chip, horny guy in First Contact, turned back into someone who needs to be taught how to be a boy in Insurrection.

    Data was much better written in all the alternate future scenes in "All Good Things" with him much more human like but still staying an android.