Was Kruge... 'misunderstood'?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Dec 14, 2013.

  1. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He seemed more upset about his dog. This probably says more about his relationship than killing her does.
     
  2. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    He was working under the presumption that it was Kirk who was the inventor of the Genesis Device, and that Kirk would have all the knowledge necessary to build another one. Kruge wanted what he thought would be inside Kirk's head. He was playing a game of strategy, thinking that Kirk would act to preserve his life and would therefore be forced to reveal what he knew. Kruge had no idea that he'd ordered the death of the wrong Kirk. By that point, he'd already allowed his greed to screw himself and his crew over, just as Khan before him had done with his vengeance.
     
  3. BoredShipCapt'n

    BoredShipCapt'n Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He ain't no delinquent, he's misunderstood!

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Armored Saint

    Armored Saint Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's more accurate for Klaa. Kruge was more a feudal lord, it explains why he had enough impunity to be this tyrannic loose cannon.
    The Federation can be really zealous about secret matters. If Spock risked death penalty for going to Talos, there's surely no shame for a Klingon or Romulan officer to execute his/her own lover.
    Kirk talked about prisoners, not hostages. It was Worf who made a statement about hostages. Kirk was surely only talking for space battles, otherwise it would contradict Errand of Mercy. It explains why Kruge's gunner destroyed the Grissom, he was not used to simply neutralize a ship.

    At the end, it seems that Klingons interpreted Kruge's action as legit an not as an incoming take-over of the Empire.
     
  5. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    STIII was awesome. Kruge was awesome. He wanted to kill everybody and everything and all the time it seemed he could do it (unlike that pussy Nero). He killed more people than VGer, Khan, the whale probe, Klaa and Chang's gang put together. He blew up an alien spaceship with his girl aboard and didn't even flinch. He blew up a Federation starship full of people. He killed his gunner. He killed a hostage -- and didn't care which one it was. He killed a monster with one hand and radioed "situation normal". His pet was another monster other Klingons were afraid of feeding. He thought it was perfectly alright to send half a dozen soldiers into an enemy battle cruiser to kill everyone inside (and when they didn't find an army waiting for them, he thought "they are hiding"). He made Kirk mad enough to blow up the f*ing Starship Enterprise®. Khan killed Spock? Kruge wants to kill him again! Kirk had to kick him in the face into a lava pit to stop him. The only time he seemed happy was when he was informed the entire planet was going to blow up -- the same planet he was on!

    I ask, what else can you expect form a movie villain? Much love for Kruge
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  6. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Ha! Ha! Ha! I love the trademark action! :) :rofl: :p ;)
     
  7. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    And how did Kruge plan to store the information revealed by Kirk?!?! :rolleyes:

    Take out an organizer and start writing?

    (Kirk: "Protomatter" Kruge: "Hold on, that's too fast. How you spell that?" [writes down] "P-R-O-T-O-M-A-T-T-E-R, correct?)

    Before the time he'd be done the whole planet would have exploded. The way Kruge was acting, it's no wonder Q referred to a member of the Klingon race as "microbrain" :klingon:

    Bob
     
  8. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Christopher Lloyd's performance was delightful -- he's a bright spot in an otherwise ill-conceived movie -- but Kruge didn't really work for me as a villain. He seemed to be pretty clearly an attempt to one-up the madness and violence of Khan in the previous film; the only problem was that Khan had a reason for being as irrational as he was, while Kruge really didn't, unless one buys "Klingons be some crazy mofos" as a reason.

    I mean, sure, some of his behaviour can kinda-sorta be explained as typical movie-baddie ruthlessness -- for instance, of course the bad guy murders his own officers and intimates with impunity and somehow still has people following him, it's kind of a dreary Hollywood cliche but it's par for the course -- but sending his entire crew off to battle an unknown number of people on the Enterprise, plus his behavior in the scene Robert Comsol points out above, moves the needle into "how in Sto'vo'kor does this guy even have a command" territory.
     
  9. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I must concur with our esteemed colleague BigJake/BigKrampus's latest post. Kruge's crew refer to him throughout as "My Lord," with the chest salute and all that, so he has their respect. But it would've been helpful, if after Kruge killed his gunner, there was a brief exchange, at least, about why the rest want to remain loyal to him. If Kruge lifted his eyes after he pulled the trigger and asked, "does anyone have a problem with that?" and someone said, "My Lord, you've led us to many victories. We will follow where ever you go." Even if it sounded like it was some kind of litany, at least it puts Kruge in a more positive light.
     
  10. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    Kruge's gunner disobeyed a direct order, which resulted in the loss of info on Genesis, possibly sabotaging the mission. That's a pretty bad crime that deserved death, at least according to Klingon standards.

    As for killing Valkris....the merchant vessel would've gotten suspicious if she transported out, and would've had time to raise shields or send a message out. So I think that's why she had to die (from Kruge's perspective).
     
  11. Noddy

    Noddy Captain

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    Regarding Valkris, I've always liked the explanation given in the novelization, that she and Kruge were never in a relationship, and never even met face to face. Valkris' family had fallen on hard times, and she saw her mission as a way of regaining honor, which is why she refers to Kruge as her love; he's her family's ticket to redemption and glory.

    As for Kruge....yeah, he doesn't come across as very smart a lot of the time, but I've wondered if the whole reason he was in charge of a BoP in the first place was because he had family in high places who were able to secure him a command he otherwise probably wouldn't have merited.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I do think it's odd that Kruge needed to decloak to receive a message. Probably didn't want to pay alimony. :lol:
     
  13. Caligula

    Caligula Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A reasonable observation.

    One thing Kruge cannot be accused of being is smart. He did impulsively beam down to the rapidly decaying planet upon discovering that Kirk did not die with his ship. Throughout the movie, he had demonstrated a personal code: capture those who service his needs, kill those who have outlived their usefulness. This is why he wanted to take prisoners from the U.S.S. Grissom. It is also why he beamed Kirk's comrades up to the Bird of Prey. He believed they still had value.

    On the surface of Genesis, he had two options left: either kill Kirk to avenge his crew, or prey on the human capacity for self-preservation and then give the command "Maltz! Beam us up!" once he'd secured his prisoner. (Obviously, he never heard about Kirk's "Corbomite Maneuver"). At that point, he probably wasn't sure which one he wanted more, but he wasn't about to rule out either option. As a result of his indecision, Kirk got the upper hand and Kruge fell to his death.

    Kruge had the capacity for strategy, but lacked the self-control to see it come to fruition. He also had a lot of dumbasses working for him.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I always thought Kruge killed Valkris so that he could take all the credit himself for finding Genesis. If Valkris had managed to make it back home before he did, she could have used Genesis to enhance her own power and standing within the Empire.
     
  15. Morpheus 02

    Morpheus 02 Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think so...he seemed genuinely sad when she died.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Kruge did seem sad when his *crew* died (we see him hiding his face in his hands) but not when he killed Valkris. He seemed convinced that he had to kill her.

    Although maybe he just did it to prevent anyone else getting ahold of her and torturing her for Genesis info.
     
  17. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Only if you don't count Klingons as "people", since V'ger wiped out three shiploads of them, plus Epsilon Nine.
     
  18. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I love Kruge too, and this film.
     
  19. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    Of course they aren't people. But even if they were, Kruge would want to kill them too. How can we be sure those three ships weren't fleeing him?