Was I the only one who disliked Far Beyond the Stars?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Crazyewok, Jun 8, 2013.

  1. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Everyone seems to rave over it.

    But

    I found the whole thing well boring.......


    I watch startrek for the science fictions. The whole them of future and space ect

    I don't watch startrek to sit and watch a 1950's drama about racism.

    Thge only good thing about the whole thing was the acting.

    By the way I find most holodeck episodes boring as hell too.
     
  2. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I polled the local electorate, and the answer to your question is "yes."
     
  3. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You sure are; you seem to have missed the whole point of Star Trek. Well done.
     
  4. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    Well, you seem to have missed the point of not only much of Star Trek, but of science fiction in general. The best science fiction is supposed to explore not just the limits of space, the mind, or technology, but also explore the human condition in the process. It's supposed to examine real world issues through the lens of a futuristic or alternative setting so we can get a new perspective on it, which is what FBtS and numerous other DS9 and Star Trek episodes did as well.

    There are plenty of episodes full of space battles and weird planets and aliens to satisfy those preferences, so it's a shame you were so dismissive of this episode based on its format and subject matter. I would suggest giving it another shot, and after that, checking out the original series if you have access to it so you can see that dealing with social issues has been a part of the franchise from the start.

    Star Trek, despite the futuristic setting, is ultimately about the human condition. It's no accident that ST:TMP ended with this message:

    [​IMG]
     
  5. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    What point is that?

    If they wanted to do a commentry on racism then why not set it in the normal trek verse or do a real time travel plot.

    I just dont dig the idea of a vision premise.
     
  6. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't dislike the episode, I just didn't understand it. And I'm not talking about the social commentary. That was pretty obvious. What eluded me was why did the Prophets give Sisko a vision about 1953 New York when he started the episode depressed about the death of a friend? That particular plot point was brought up, but then went nowhere. The Prophets' motives seems incoherent in this one.
     
  7. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Not really I get all the other episodes like Duet, in the pale moon light ect

    It just a dont like this one. Just my personael prefrence really

    Yup I get that but to me true sci fi explores the human condition within the context of other sci fi thems otherwise it just the fi or fiction.

    Well to me it fails on the fact its not useing a futuristic lens. Well not fail as its obviouly a popular episode but its why I dont like it.



    As stated I understand that. I love other deep episodes just not this one.


    Then why bother with the future premise? Why bother then with the star part of star trek? Why not just set it on earth and have a series done on the aventures on Benny Russell?
    Worst film to quote as its my secound least favorite :rolleyes:
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Their motives always have a random element to them. As if they just noticed something one day and swatted at it. I think they pulled that shit out of Sisko's brain and dumped him in it with as much purpose as you have patting a dog's head as it walks past you.

    Oh and it's a wonderful episode. I so love watching it with people for the first time as they realize who Martok is etc.. and you can see the actors are having a great time with it.
     
  9. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    What "themes" are specific to science fiction? I thought theme and genre were mutually exclusive, no?

    Also, you'll have to explain why magical, non-corporeal aliens, who exist beyond space and time and can insert a human into a past alternate-reality, aren't science fiction.

    Wouldn't that make it the second to worst film to quote?

    It was, however, it was the only one written by the guy who created the whole thing.

    Just sayin'.
     
  10. Admiral_Sisko

    Admiral_Sisko Lieutenant Commander

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    It's sometimes helpful to use contrast to drive home a particular point. The Star Trek universe presents a uniform, utopian society, and it's easy to view problems such as racism as an abstraction when faced with the ideals and views of the Federation. The vision experienced by Sisko allows the audience to see the characters of Deep Space 9 as they may have been had they lived in a world dominated by intolerance, a world that is still extremely relevant in our own society, unfortunately, for we are not as far removed from the problems of the early-to-mid-twentieth century.

    The vision is made all the more powerful by the episode's conclusion, the scene in which Sisko is speaking with his father and offers the idea that perhaps Deep Space 9 is the illusion- that Benny Russell dreams of the universe that Sisko and company live in- an idea that many who love Star Trek can relate to.
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't dislike it but it was somewhat out there and random to me. The message of the episode was great, but really is out of context with the rest of the show. DS9 demonstrated any number of times that it can deal with social issues in context with the setting of the universe it's in after all.

    But yeah, as this thread demonstrates there are those who seem to think anyone who doesn't like it as much as they do are missing out on some great truth. Though likes and dislikes are subjective things to each individual person. I tend to skip over it when I'm rewatching just because it does derail from the rest of the plot.

    My favorite part of the episode is seeing the actors that play aliens out of makeup.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I think Far Beyond the Stars is the best DS9 episode.
     
  13. Mr_Homn

    Mr_Homn Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think it's a pretty dull episode, and I agree with the OP. Not impressed with Avery Brook's embarrassingly bad over-acting on display in the episode either.
     
  14. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I kind of had the idea that making Benjamin Sisko doubt his hold on sanity was the work of the pah-wraiths, trying to drive fear and uncertainty through him. An uncertain, unable to command Sisko would be far less dangerous than a mad as hell, resolute Emissary. Which is why I like that scene where Sisko's father, playing the role of the oracle, is guiding Ben to a path straight and true.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So does Avery Brooks. I think it's his favorite DS9 episode he ever did.
     
  16. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, the motive is perfectly clear. As I wrote when I first watched the episode a few years ago:
    The episode is structured around the crisis of confidence and strength Sisko begins to feel as the casualties and rigors of war with the Dominion continue to mount. He receives bad news about an old acquaintance and it proves to very nearly be the final straw. As he tells his father, who is visiting the station, “I don’t know how much more of this I can take.” Sisko, who carries the titles of Captain and Emissary, is beginning to buckle under the pressures of expectations. And he wonders whether or not to simply step down from his post. His father counsels him, saying, “You’ve got some thinking to do.”

    The episode, then, is a journey for Sisko, showing him how important it is to “fight the good fight.”

    ...

    More important than the fiery, impassioned final plea of Benny (“I am a human being!) are the rationalizations of the various characters, demonstrating how prejudice can be created, continued and fought by excuses, arguments and actions. There are very few actual “villains” in the episode. But the moral standing of each character is on clear display. And that, really, is what makes the exploration into Benny’s life so compelling and powerful. More than simply saying, “Benny good – Douglas bad,” the episode shows us characters who struggle with or hide from important social issues, issues which have a very real affect on the lives of people.

    All of this is designed to show our hero, Ben Sisko, that his fight against the Dominion is worth fighting. That stepping down would be tantamount to accepting Dominion rule, to enabling the oppressors. It’s another layer of the story that works very, very well.
     
  17. Elim Garakov

    Elim Garakov Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    So basically a bajoran peptalk?
     
  18. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I like the episode but I think it's overrated. The whole affair was a little forced.

    I thought it turned out to be the Pah-Wraiths behind his vision. Sarah Sisko said "The wraiths even sent you a false vision and you did not waver", presumably referring to his second 'Benny' vision where he's in a mental institution. (Or were they only behind the second one?)
     
  19. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Co-Founder of ISIS Moderator

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    I don't care if the OP likes or dislikes the episode and wouldn't have bothered to respond if he had only said it was boring or had overacting or something like that.

    Nor do I think there were any especially profound or groundbreaking new insights into racial injustice in the story. There was nothing said about racism in the episode that hadn't been said before in other TV series, movies, books, etc. (which is not a knock on the story, mind you).

    However, I object to the rationale that it's not true science fiction because of the 50s terrestrial setting of part of the episode. I object to the notion that Star Trek shouldn't do a "drama about racism" and think it misses the point since that's been a staple of Trek storytelling (and science fiction in general) from the start.
     
  20. chrinFinity

    chrinFinity Captain Captain

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    Well, the path that that the Prophets laid out for us isn't always clear.