Was Crusher Troi's boss?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by MikeS, Oct 5, 2013.

  1. MikeS

    MikeS Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ...With Psychology/psychiatry being a branch of medicine and all.

    Or were Troi and the whole counselling corps just a self-maintaining fad?
     
  2. od0_ital

    od0_ital Admiral Admiral

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    Obviously not, since Troi had a better seat on the bridge than Crusher did. If Troi were part of sickbay's medical staff, she would have had to give her seat to Picard's left for Beverly when she visited the bridge.
     
  3. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    She may fall under Beverley's staff, once she started wearing a uniform it was the medical colors. So maybe, her department was a part of Medical, but her position as Ship's Counselor put her on par with Beverly. Kind of like Operations would seem to fall under Engineering, but unless Geordi needed him, Data's position as Second Officer and Chief Science Officer put him above and on par with Geordi.
     
  4. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

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    I think that ultimately Picard was Troi's boss and that he was the only reason she on the bridge at all (I've always believed that on other Galaxy-class ships, that third chair may be filled by a different officer or there might not even be a third chair).

    I also believe that the Enterprise's sciences division has many different departments--medical, stellar sciences, social sciences, biology, and so on--and each had its own senior officer in charge of it. Troi likely wore blue as a result of a background in psychology and that as ship's counselor, she also head of a small staff of junior counselors, IMO.
     
  5. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^^ This. She always seemed to answer directly to Picard, not Crusher, and I always got the sense that Troi's role on the Enterprise was Picard's prerogative, and probably a unique position. While Troi was the ship's councilor, Troi was also an adviser to Picard, particularly in cases of diplomacy, and basically filled a dual role. Due to her empathic abilities, she was supposed to help Picard determine the truthfulness or emotional state of mind of the other side, etc. While other ships and starbases certainly had ships councilors, Troi being so high up in the command structure of the Enterprise is very unusual, and possibly unique.

    Both Troi and Crusher were commanders, outside each others' chains of command, and thus were equals. In fact, both technically were in positions where they could relieve Picard of command, if warranted, due to medical reasons.
     
  6. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    I got the impression that her area was its own department aboard
     
  7. chardman

    chardman Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Troi's job was to use her insight to give counsel to the captain when dealing with others, as essentially a profiler/advisor. Granted, these same skills also gave her insight to help her fellow crew mates with their personal problems, but this probably wasn't even a part of her actual job, but an unofficial sideline she engaged in, in her spare time. Her vocation was as an adsvisoe to the captain, while her avocation was "helping people".
     
  8. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

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    I have always taken it that A councilor would be under the CMO command, however, Picard utilised Deanna not as a councilor but as a Betazoid while on the bridge.

    As such, I think she held a dual role on board, due to her unique abilities. Fulfilling a medical role [as we see her councilling numerous crewmen] and as an advisor [due to her unique, racial abilities]

    Thus, I assume this unique dual role affords her privelages that other councillors would not have: like sitting on the Bridge. Where people sit isn't important, I'd assume Beverley still outranks her...but has no need to actually be on the bridge, unlike Troi.
     
  9. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TNG never treated Troi's counseling sessions as a form of medical treatment the way modern psychiatry does, they treated it like the pop psychology image of people just going into an office to have someone to whine to and talk out their emotional issues. And we never saw Troi prescribe any kind of medication, and she never appeared to have a medical degree. Her method of treatment was to keep the patient's dead husband's belongings until the patient realizes she's not over his death.

    I got the impression Troi reports to Riker like a department head.
     
  10. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Psychiatrits are doctors just like cardiologists, neurologists etc.
    Psychology is not medicine.

    She wasn't wearing medical colors, she wore science blue. Crusher was in charge of the medical staff (except for the nurses, wouldn't make much sense to have a doctor be their boss), not everyone in a blue uniform.
     
  11. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Am I reading this wrong? Why wouldn't a Chief Medical Officer have authority over nurses, who are medical personnel? I'm pretty sure nurses are usually required to follow doctor's orders.
     
  12. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For clarity's sake ...

    "Counselor" is one who offers counsel, as in "the President's Chief Counsel."

    "Councilor" (sic) is one who serves on a council, or in years past, "councilman."

    Just a pet peeve. Carry on.
     
  13. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't know about other countries but here doctor's have no authority over nurses, Doctor's can issue directives for the therapy and they obviously prescribe medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, but nursing is its own profession, they work alongside doctors not for them.
    I am a nurse and if a doctor tries to order me around he or she will regret that day even if it's the chief of medicine himself, because believe it or not, he's not my boss, we have our own "chain of command".
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    Interesting. Though, by issuing directives for the therapy and prescribing medication which the nurse will inject or give to the patient, they're telling the nurse what needs to be done. Yes? Would a nurse do these without a doctor's authorization?

    Still I would think a Chief Medical Officer would be in charge of all Medical personnel, with a head nurse reporting to them. I assume people in other medicals professions like dentistry,pharmacy, optometry and psychology would also be under the authority of the CMO.

    Similarly, Spock is the Chief Science Officer, but his specially seems to be physics and computers. Still everyone in the sciences, be they physicists, geologists or chemists report to him because he is the CSO.
     
  15. Mojochi

    Mojochi Commodore Commodore

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    That makes sense, but in this case it's more along the lines of a military medical unit, wherein the commanding officer is a doctor, like Col. Potter on M*A*S*H :lol: Beverly is a commander by rank & Ogawa is a Lieutenant in the same unit

    A cool thing would have been to have a nursing corp. like the Army, & though the entire corp. of nurses on board would answer to the officer in charge of the medical dept. in matters such as away teams, disaster plans or what have you, the nurses, their duty roster, assignments, schedules etc... within the function of the ship's sickbay would be within its own department. That really would've been an excellent way to feature Ogawa, who was arguably the chief nurse...... Like Major Margaret Houlihan... on M*A*S*H. I keep going back to M*A*S*H :guffaw:
     
  16. Green Shirt

    Green Shirt Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Thanks for the clarity, its good to get this cannon problem cleared up. :devil:
     
  17. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, but that means they're in charge of the therapy (but not all of it), not in charge of the nurse, doctor's cannot hire, fire or discipline nurses ... well, they can if they own a private practice but in the private sector a nurse could hire a doctor and be their boss, too.

    No, but a nurse will not do it if it would endanger a patient and there are other parts of the therapy where the nurse or another profession is in charge and a doctor's authorization is neither required nor asked for. At least in hospitals it's a team, everyone has authority in different areas but not over each other.

    I think in starfleet it would make sense to have a single cmo for the entire medical staff, but if "chief medical officer" is more of an administrative position I could see a high ranking nurse doing the job too.
     
  18. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I remember reading something a while ago about the development of TNG and for a time 'Lieutenant' Troi was attached to the Medical Department, but as the premise went through development she was moved to a seat on the Bridge in order to make the role a stronger and more prominent one.
     
  19. vulcan redshirt

    vulcan redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    when she was acting in her capacity as 'counsellor', helping crew with psycological issues that a hypospray cannot cure (bear in mind the ED has over 1000 people on board, a fair number are are families / children, it is likely that there will be a reasonable need for the 'talking therapy' that counsellors provide. In this capacity it would be logical that her 'boss' is Crusher. - didnt Barclay see her about his holoaddiction? . It would seem logical that most large starships would have someone doing this, probably attached to the medical department.

    However this function would appear to be part-time. When she is called to the bridge to assist the commanding officer in combat and first contact situations - due to her Betazoid abilities, I would assume she reports directly to the commanding officer at the time (usually Picard or Riker).

    It would also appear that, as her career develops, she reduces her role as general counsellor, and becomes more bridge orientated. Effectively she transfers from medical to command departments.
     
  20. Kooz

    Kooz Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    She always seemed way underqualified to be doling out advice. Being an empath hardly qualifies someone as a counselor. I would hope she had some training, but if she did, it never shone through.

    Also, why did she wear so much non-regulation spandex?