Was anybody surprised by Dukat striking a deal with the Dominion?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by JediKnightButler, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...Or, for the flip side of that coin, his guerrilla years (months?) taught him that he could pursue his own ambitions even when pretending to ally himself with others. The experiences would also have seasoned him to thinking that his allies, while thinking of themselves as powerful, were actually weaklings that Dukat could exploit at his leisure. (That last bit would be pure hubris, of course, but that's classic Dukat.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  2. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was 13 at the time he did this. It did catch me off-guard. But I have said (as an adult) that, whether it was done for ratings or not (bringing in the Klingons as antagonists), it makes perfect sense in a show about oppression to have a race that wants to be "strong again" by hooking up with the Dominion. They did a good job leading this story where it needed to go and make perfect sense (while saying something about the world in which we live). Remembering that the Klingons and Federation were the only threats, having a changeling in charge of all of it, but not making the decisions, was perfect. It's one of the things I really like about the 4-5 seasons. This looks well-planned.
     
  3. HappyChristmas-InDixie

    HappyChristmas-InDixie Trek BBS Member CmndrSela318 Premium Member

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    Was anybody surprised by Dukat striking a deal with the Dominion?
    I was this--> :eek: surprised followed by being this--> :wtf: what the f***?. Why do you think I went from liking him to hating him? Up to that point, I liked him. I think I was even developing a bit of a crush on him. Then he went and did that and fell out of my favor faster than any member of this forum can type: fell out of my favor. He regained a little of my favor when Damar killed Ziyal. Didn't last long. Once he quit having those hallucinations he was having in Waltz and regained his composure, he lost my favor...AGAIN.
    All that said, I still like him better than Damar. I have NOT forgiven Damar for Ziyal.
    And before anyone brings up the subject of Jadzia's death...I'm not really mad at Dukat for killing Jadzia. Now I'm gonna tell you why, and split hairs doing it. Technically it was that Pah-Wraith that was in Dukat at the time that killed Jadzia. Based on Dukat's behavior and tone of voice when he went over to and spoke to an unconscious Jadzia after that Pah-Wraith left him, I don't think he meant to hurt her but he just couldn't control that Pah-Wraith at all like he probably thought he could.
     
  4. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    If you think it was an impulsive decision, Use of Time, you haven't paid attention.
    When Dukat makes the announcement he actually states that the alliance was made after he "conducted long, secret negotiations". Some planning definitely went into this. (Having said that, he was by no means beyond impulsive acts on occasion, especially when he was being thwarted, or became infuriated.)
    And think of - if it had all gone to plan, he'd have become the national hero. Plus the alliance allowed him to take up position as Cardassia's leader. How could a man as power-hungry as that resist? It's the ultimate prize!

    DISAGREE ENTIRELY with above remark re.: Damar and Ziyal.
    From where Damar was standing, he didn't murder some innocent girl, he executed a traitor. She collaborated with the enemy, she shared responsibility for the weapons system being down when it was needed in defence of the station. She betrayed her father and so cost him, and by that token Cardassia, an historic victory. Dukat should have recognized who was really loyal to him at that point, and come back to his senses. He should have thanked Damar if anything.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    We hear a lot about how Cardassians do two things much better, or at least much more intensely, than any human: family values and loyalty.

    It's very difficult to show any of this supposedly alien behavior on screen. How does a man in scaly makeup put a greater value on his daughter than a man without? At least we got some examples of the totalitarian life on Cardassian worlds, with people living in fear of authorities, turning each other in, and so forth, even if we didn't get good examples of anybody actually sacrificing his life (or his fortunes or his future or whatever) for the good of the state. But in the end, we were left with nothing but hearsay on how these two Cardassian passions would balance out when conflicted.

    ...Until "Tears of the Prophets" and its aftermath, that is. We saw how a philandering and self-centered Cardassian husband went crazy when a young woman who wasn't even fully Cardassian was rightly executed for her atrocities against the Cardassian loyalty code, just because that woman happened to have some genes from said man. It's really an "irresistible force encounters immovable obstacle" type of thing, a fundamentally implausible (or at least alien) situation where all outcomes thus are plausible by default. What we see is what we get, and quite well may be what we'd have gotten had some other Cardassian killed the daughter of yet another Cardassian, regardless of their personality traits and other quirks.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We really see the two aspects quite well in Favor the Bold/Sacrifice of Angels with Dukat and Ziyal's relationship. Dukat clearly cares about Ziyal to the point of being blind to the threat she represents even though Damar sees it coming clear as day. The funny thing is, the same speech Dukat gave to Ziyal about Rom being an enemy of the state, and enemies of the state deserve what they get, is exactly the same logic Damar used when he shot Ziyal. I'd say that conflict within Dukat slamming home so hard is what caused Dukat to break more than Sisko beating him.