Was anybody surprised by Dukat striking a deal with the Dominion?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by JediKnightButler, Apr 4, 2013.

  1. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Did anybody like that it seemed to come out of nowhere? I mean, in retrospect, it seems like something that an opportunist like Dukat would do under the right circumstances- and the events of S4, specifically, the overthrow of the Central Command, the Klingon invasion of Cardassia, his demotion to freighter captain, his disillusionment about his government's weakness against the Klingons certainly laid the groundwork for his desire for Cardassia to join with the Dominion to make it "strong" and "proud" again- but would it have been interesting in seeing Dukat meet with the Dominion or were we better off not knowing before it actually happened? It does make you wonder how he contacted the Dominion and began his "negotiations"?
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It surprised me at the time. Season 4 Dukat was pretty much one of the good guys for example. Sure in hindsight he was just serving his own interests that just happened to be aligned with the good guys, but... the knife in your back is always a surprise.

    It wasn't out of character at all. Dukat always was one to land on his feet, regardless if it requires walking softly or stepping on others.
     
  3. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah and he was even willing to see his daughter killed along with the others when the Bashir changeling was going to blow everybody in and around DS9 to pieces. I loved Sisko's confrontation with the Dukat at the end of BIL. He had Dukat pegged correctly......
     
  4. ryan123450

    ryan123450 Commodore Commodore

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    I was surprised at the time. That was one of those big "Wow that was an awesome episode!" moments. Deep Space Nine was full of those episodes far moreso than any other Trek series.
     
  5. indolover

    indolover Fleet Captain

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    To some extent, since in the early seasons he got on (for the most part) with Sisko and even considered him a friend (though of course the feeling was never mutual). It seemed odd that in Apocalypse Rising Sisko and Dukat were at least cordial, then when Cardassia joined the Dominion they became total enemies lol...

    That said, Dukat was a complex character, and perhaps the opportunity of joining the Dominion gave him the chance to express his true nature.
     
  6. Saito S

    Saito S Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was surprised - in that I didn't see it coming, but I don't think it was at all unbelievable given everything that had happened with the Dukat character up to that point. I definitely think hiding it from the audience until the moment it was dropped on our heroes was the way to go. It stands out as one of the great "holy &%#$!" moments, in a show that - as ryan123450 alludes to - was full of such moments.
     
  7. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It was the great kind of shock wherein they don't telegraph it yet it seems entirely natural and makes perfect sense when you think about it. Far too many surprise moments in episodes of television in general use them at the expense of logic, but this was definitely one of the good ones.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2013
  8. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    100% Agreed!
     
  9. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    It wasn't that surprising for me, as it seemed inevitable given his ego. Dukat was obsessed with power, and always wanted to be number one, though he was really a number two.

    Sorry, couldn't resist plumbing for bathroom humor.
     
  10. Gil T.Azell

    Gil T.Azell Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was surprising at the time because up to that point it seemed like they were making him into a protagonist.

    But out of character, no. Remember this man was a conquerer who never expressed an ounce of regret about the Occupation, unless of course you count the times he was trying to glorify himself as a reformer who had to fight Central Command not to make the Occupation even worse.
     
  12. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    It probably would have been surprising, if I had remembered that the Founders declared Cardassia dead at the end of S4. (And if I had watched the show in order.)
     
  13. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dukat is hands down one of the best villains ever written, not only in Trek, but in televion in general.
     
  14. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That really ended up being quite prophetic but not in the way that Garak expected.
     
  15. JediKnightButler

    JediKnightButler Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree that he was a very well-written villain, at least up through "Waltz", when he seemingly went insane and the writers made him more of a one-dimensional "evil" character. He was a swarmy b*****d and a meglomaniac and a tyrant but even I occasionally broke down and enjoyed his character. He was definitely a real "love to hate" character. Marc Alaimo did a great job with him IMHO!
     
  16. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes and no. The announcement came as the sort of surprise that makes you think in retrospect that it was actually quite predictable.
    I loved the moment when that bombshell was dropped!, in fact I cheered. I thought to myself, right, he's back on course now. I really didn't like Dukat that much during seasons 3 and 4. I prefer him when he's being a bastard. It's more convincing. He doesn't do "Mr. nice guy" very well and it doesn't suit him.
     
  17. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    It was great for the show with a nice twist but I just don't think Gul Dukat would be that shortsighted. There is no way in the world he is stupid enough to think the Dominion would allow Cardassia a piece of the pie after the war with the other Alpha Quadrant powers. Even if he did know that the Dominion was just using them, did he really think they could handle the Dominion after the Federation war was over? I don't know, to me Gul Dukat is a survivor. Specifically, someone that has survived by having a knack for anticipating which way the wind was blowing. I just don't think his character would be that dumb regardless of how much he wanted to regain Cardassia to power. It would be more likely that he would try to start something with the other Alpha Quadrant powers after the Dominion war while the other powers were weakened.
     
  18. Dal Rassak

    Dal Rassak Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't think it was stupidity on his part as such, but overconfidence (which can lead you to making stupid decisions). I'm pretty sure he believed Cardassia (i.e., him) could keep a handle on the Dominioin. Re-establish your pre-eminence by making a pact with a powerful ally. When you've achieved the desired victory, turn on your ally. There was this plan to eliminate the Jem'Hadar by doing something to their white supply, if I remember rightly - which Damar had some details of on his PADD, which Rom then made sure got into the hands of the Jem'Hadar - which was the reason for that almighty bust-up in Quark's bar.
    Also I honestly think his thirst for glory and power made him shortsighted in this instance. He couldn't think past the personal vindication of getting "his" station back.
     
  19. Use of Time

    Use of Time Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, he has been overconfident at times but Dukat wasn't generally impulsive. He was a very deliberate man. He was always in a position working behind the scenes so as take credit when he could but also escape blame. Joining the Dominion openly and putting his name out there as the guy responsible is just not his style. Way too risky. I can see a guy like Gul Evek being more willing to do something like that. I just feel like a Cardassia that was generally weekened anyway at this point should have known that they had nothing for the Dominion in terms of strength after another prolonged conflict with the Federation. This is a Cardassia that had been in recent conflict with the Federation, then the Maquis and considerable damage from the Klingon invasion force. I could have seen Cardassia as the lone power refusing to join the Alpha Quadrant powers and then stirring the pot once the Dominion was taken care of.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always figured months operating as a guerrilla very similar to the ones he used to despise, coupled with the weakness of Cardassia is what inspired Dukat to seek out the Dominion. Both of these disgusted him and ate at him and it was only a matter of time before looking for a way to return to glory, even at a high price, seemed attractive to him.
     

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