Warp 10

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Bry_Sinclair, Aug 29, 2013.

  1. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In "Threshold" achieving warp ten caused Janeway and Paris to 'evolve' into salamander-type humans, but once back on Voyager the EMH was able to cure them of their odd affliction.

    So why didn't they make the modifications to the warp core and get back to Earth at the end of the episode? The condition obviously wasn't life-threatening and could easily be reversed--which the EMH could do the moment they dropped out of warp in the Sol System seeing as he wouldn't be affected by the process.

    So why not go ahead and do it then put up with the bizarre side effects for a few days?
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    BECAUSE.. when they came out of warp 10 and were back on earth and the EMH had restored them all the whole ship would be crawling with embarrassing salamander babies that they couldn't just ditch because this wasn't the DQ any more.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or why not have a holographic pilot?

    This was the beginning of the technology.

    They still had no idea how to navigate in transwarp space.

    They didn't even know how to exit transwarp space safely.

    They just turned the engine off and hoped they weren't going to exit into a sun.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Would a holographic pilot be able to tell what effects warp 10 would have on humans?

    Did they even suspect there would be effects? No, I don't think so. So yeah why not have a holographic pilot?

    The answer being, Tom needed to sow some piloting oats and be a hero. And Janeway wanted to do what she could for crew morale and let him.
     
  5. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What always drove me nuts about this episode is it was previously established going faster then Warp 10 was viable in overload conditions (See Star Trek 1) and reinforced else where.

    The theory-held that Transwarp was simply pushing off another form of substance gradients that essentially allowed for more efficient and thus potentially faster warp speeds.

    The theory, as I understood it, up until "Threshold" (S02E15) was going beyond Warp 100 is what gave you crazy effects as seen in "Where No One Has Gone Before" (TNG S1E06).

    Voyager's whole Warp 10 ordeal kind of just shattered a whole bunch of heavily implied in show references and a whole bunch of written reference material over the course of the few seconds they broke warp 10 and things kind of "exploded".

    I have to admit, I have a big grudge against Brannon Braga (writer of this episode) for basically throwing a whole bunch of martial out the window, not even referencing any scientific material on the topic an coming up with something that REALLY makes no sense.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There's your problem.

    But doesn't the work around explanation say that the definition of warp changed over the years?
     
  7. Lighthammer

    Lighthammer Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Between TOS and the movies. When the movies hit, they are using the same warp factor as TNG.

    As I understand it, they essentially converted when they migrated to the new warp cores.

    Example (though not canon):
    http://youtu.be/mLyUGwzPFdU?t=5m30s
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Warp drive, transwarp drive, transwarp conduits, slipstream drive-- the warp scale probably had to be adjusted as each of these became known, whether developed by the Federation or not.
     
  9. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Congratualtions you've just ended the show. That was one of the many problems with this episode they were fully able to get home and any minor side effects of the trip could be reversed.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Would YOU volunteer to be turned into a lizard and then have a hologram reverse you?

    I'd rather stay in the DQ.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    OKuda invented the warp ten limit and that little graph with the asymptote in your encyclopaedia back when they where spit balling before the first season of TNG.

    The warp scale had been recalibrated instory between TOS and TNG at an undisclosed point.

    The fucked up thing is that then Berman goes and invents a prequel where he is more than clearly using the TNG warp scale.
     
  12. Lt. Uhura-Brown

    Lt. Uhura-Brown Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    How long did it take Tom to evolve Pokémon-style into a salamander? Was it longer than a few minutes before the first symptoms appeared?

    Couldn't the Doctor just make a load of anti-proton inoculations, and give one to every crew member to self-administer immediately after they completed the transwarp jaunt?
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is all highly experimental.

    What if you got back to earth and the inoculation wore off unexpectedly during your big reunion?
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This salamander thing happened to Tom because he had wonky insides.

    Tom didn't give a damn.

    Okay here's the pickle.

    The chances of Kathryn having EXACTLY THE SAME ENZYMATIC IMBALANCE are fantastically unlikely unless there is a close familial bond between the two.

    Brother and sister, or mother and son?
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You just want incest.

    Did it say anywhere that this enzymatic imbalance actually caused the evolutionary event?
     
  16. GameOn

    GameOn Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Brannon Braga also wrote the TNG episode "Genesis" which completely butchered evolution. Lets just pretend that Threshold never happened.
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But if it never happened there are no abandoned babies to return in JJTrek's ultimate prodigal parent movie!

    Heck, it happened to Kirk, it can happen to Janeway.
     
  18. Stoo

    Stoo Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Okay so you can't do Warp 10 (which I understand as, Infinite Speed?) or everyone turns into newts and has newt sex. So why not do, like, warp 9.999999995? And get home in 38 minutes instead of instantly. At what point does newtification set in?
     
  19. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Wait a sec - Braga got the warp 10 = infinite velocity thing (as dumb and contradictory as it is) from the warp speed charts in Mike Okuda's TNG Technical Manual and Star Trek Encyclopedia - the very same ones you were saying should be 100% canon in the "Intrepid vs. Galaxy class" thread.
     
  20. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If it meant getting home, avoiding Borg space (and Seven of Nine), and giving the eggheads back at the Starfleet a means of developing warp 10 technology whilst also looking for ways to safeguard the crew for the ill effects which would open up not just our galaxy but millions of others to peaceful exploration, then yes, yes I would.

    Whilst personally I dislike the idea of being treated by a simple tool (which holograms are), it doesn't bother most of the crew when they suffer more serious injuries and illnesses. Besides, you'd be back at Earth and a proper doctor can use the EMHs notes and treat you instead.