Voyager again, for the first time

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by NightJim, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    30 Days
    Aha, the demotion of Mr Paris. Didn't remember a single thing from this episode other than that. Coincidentally, I also happen to be reading the Long Earth by Pratchett and Stephenson at the minute and the chapter I was at was about a totally water planet. But anyway nice episode. Good to see a someone butting up against

    Counterpoint
    Where Voyager reminds us that it doesn't work very well in binge watching. Following up an episode of Paris getting in trouble for breaking the Prime Directive we have Janeway completely ignoring it. I realise they're breaking it in totally different ways, but it just doesn't work this close together. Even a one episode in between would improve things.

    Oh, and I know there's a thread called "Why is Janeway sexy?" which I haven't ventured into for fear of spoilers, but this episode should be Exhibit A. Mulgrew turns up the smouldering up to 11. That scene with the scientist alone is evidence enough.

    Latent Image
    I loved this episode. The Doctor has a mental breakdown.
    Janeway's old prejudice about the Doctor rears its head without her realising, and chooses to wipe the problem from his memory, and Seven steps up as a commentator on equal opportunities. My own issue would be I find it hard to believe Kes would allow the Doctor to just have his mindwiped, but then again she might see it more as 'repairing' then Seven does.

    But this episode also solidified my thinking that I've started hitting the point that everything is Janeway and Seven (with the Doctor in there too) related at some point.

    I'd noticed it a few times already, but it really hit home when Tuvok walked into the holodeck to relieve Janeway and made a comment about the Doctor's logic. I first expected a conversation between the Doctor and Tuvok about the logic of picking Harry over Ensign ThrowawayHotness, but instead he gets sent away, and then I realised it's been a while since Tuvok really got anything to do. The same could be said for some of others. Amusingly enough Chakotay may be one that was given more than others, alongside Paris.

    Oh and Wang is really phoning it in now. But I know that's a problem with his work ethic rather than being pissed at nothing to do.
     
  2. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Bride of Chaotica

    Well that was... interesting. I can see the idea. Comedy episode, tongues firmly in cheeks. It almost pulls it off. The one problem is it just goes on too long. The cast seem to be having fun though.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "yes ma'am, his army of evil"

    Which was once upon am time my signature here.
     
  4. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Seriously. It is a lot of fun, I was chuckling along for most of it. Just at about half an hour, the joke was done, and the last fifteen minutes were a little torturous.
     
  5. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Gravity.

    Soon as I saw the woman in the desert with her face covered I thought "Oh God Lori Petty. I vaguely remember this now". The finer details were gone, but the broad strokes came back to me as I watched. Anyway, not a bad Tuvok episode. Not a great one either. But nice to see him getting an outing. In fact Seven and Janeway barely do anything here.
     
  6. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If the people she's transporting ask for sanctuary, is Janeway still breaking the PD?
     
  7. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    ... now you've made me question it. I thought it was specifically said in the episode. Anyway, this is the equivalent of going through Romulan space and picking up refugees. By understanding is that you're not allowed to interfere in the internal politics. It might not be the PD though.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The innacuately reffered to "non-interference policy" mentioned in TNG Redemption, was sited as why the Federation could not become involved in the Klingon Civil War, because "It was an entirely internal matter" but the argument stands is that (this is what is really called) policy of non-interference is just a desciption of a hefty chunk of Prime Directive which in it's totality covers a lot of ground that was irrelevant to the Klingon Civil War.

    and...

    "Principle" is a weird word to use for a regulation in the Star Fleet Rule Book. Also note that Picard was allowed to interfere in a Klingon/Romulan war, so the non interference policy only extends to the goings on of one planet or one species and what they get up to on their own time, and how they evolve as a culture on their own time table, which does sound a hell of a lot like the prime directive if it accounts for after the invention of warp drive WHICH IT DOES.

    "Sigh"

    Just because some one asks for Sanctuary, a Star Ship Captain doesn't have to give Sanctuary (I think that priests do, no matter what.) wich is why Janeway had that trial for Quinn in Deathwish.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought she grated him sanctuary which is why the trial was on Voyager and not in the Continnium? I thought the trail was just to show Quinn was suffering and had the right to take his own life?

    I was also thinking about what you said about Paris in "30 Days".
    Wasn't part of the reason he got demoted was due to the fact if his plan failed, he would have destroyed an entire ecosystem of a planet?
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She couldn't grant sanctuary until he proved that being forced to live was an intolerable cruelty, and they wouldn't let him die until he was granted sanctuary.

    Tom fired heavy yield weapons at a power station. That's just a stupid idea, and it didn't matter how safe he played it, there was always a chance he could have destroyed the ecosystem slightly faster than it was already being destroyed by the power station.

    Imagine if Iran got on it's high horse and decided that irresponsible America was no longer allowed to use Nuclear Power because, even when it's used correctly it's grossly irresponsibly damaging to the planet?

    How exactly do you think Iran would be thanked for systematically removing all the American Nuclear Power stations for the national grid by force?

    No, I'm serious, if Iran can't suggest that other countries also be denied Nuclear Power, then the world is just picking on Iran.

    No one likes a bully.

    ;)

    This is so the non interference policy which might be the Prime Directive.

    But this episode did seem to be about the Prime Directive and it did apply to a post warp culture which happens all the time in Voyager.
     
  11. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Yeah, Janeway directly says that it's because he disobeyed a direct order as well as breaching the PD. The possible plan failing was never really mentioned. As guy said, Janeway states they've given their advice, it's up to the aliens to follow it or not. The Government has said no, so Voyager can't get involved.

    Which is pretty much why I think that the following episode is so contradictory to what she just did to Paris. The ruling class have told her to not get involved, but she's ferrying refugees anyway. It's "Do as I say, not as I do".
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well yeah, that's part of being Captain.
    Paris is just an Officer, he isn't supposed to go behind the Captains back and disobey an order.
    I don't see it as a contradiction due to who's in charge and who isn't.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Tuvok disobeyed her and got a promotion 6 months later.
     
  14. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    6 months later
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Revulsion was at the beginning of season 4?

    Wow, it feels much earlier than that.

    Prime Factors is exactly where I thought it was though.
     
  16. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, the crazy killer hologram
    One of my favorites!
     
  17. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Bliss

    You know, for a second there, I was really worried Naomi Wildman was going to save the day. All in all, not a bad episode. The rest of the crew pulling off sinister yet blissful was pretty damn good.
     
  18. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One of my favorites!

    The scene where Neelix tells Seven he's been made Ambassador and the look she gives him is classic!!:lol:

    However, it took me a few viewings over the years to notice by the end of the ep, Naomi is missing.
     
  19. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Took a nice long break to move countries, read Vendetta, and get stuck into some classic Doctor Who, but last night I finally got back into it with Dark Frontier.

    Fantastic Episode. Possibly Voyager's best Borg episode to date.

    Only thing I really felt that was missing was Seven's reasoning. She swaps back to the Borg practically expecting to be immediately become a drone, that doesn't happen and suddenly she's railing against the Queen, screaming about individuality. Then Janeway's saves her and there's no addressing the fact Seven switched sides voluntarily. I think the intention is that the Queen coerced her through those transmissions, but that's a bit vague at best.
     
  20. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    The Disease.

    An interesting spin on the 'Officer cops off with an alien' routine. Or rather, an actual addressing of it instead of it just happening. I wonder how many of those protocols were dreamt up by Bones after he treated Kirk for the third alien STD that month?

    I also liked Janeway's admittance that if it was Paris back in the day she'd have barely raised an eyebrow.