Voyager again, for the first time

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by NightJim, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    So after Lipton's post I made time to watch Distant Origin, and I'm going to write my thoughts before checking Teacake's opinion.

    Due to the huge gaps in my season 3 viewing I'm not sure I'd mark it as the best the season has to offer, but it is most certainly up there. I love episodes that take an alternative perspective to what we're used too.

    I also love the scientific approach to the whole thing, and that it comes down to the powerful not wanting to give up their grip on society. It's modern day thinking applied to a culture more technologically advanced than the Federation done incredibly well. Chakotay even gets a good speech, and I've been thinking that in the last few episodes his descent in being bland is well on it's way.

    However, I didn't like the reasoning behind the the Voth's escape/our lack of knowledge. The Doctor and Janeway's analysis indicates that it's the removal from the extinction event that puts the Voth were they are, yet Chakotay and Gegan basically pin it on the Atlantis theory and it's handwaved for the rest of the episode. A species capable of fleeing the planet but just leaving the dinosaurs to it doesn't fit. Nor does them travelling all the way to the Delta Quadrant before settling. If we ever see the Voth again hopefully that gets addressed. If anything I think it needed to be an abduction clause. Some alien race saved Saurapods from the Extinction Event. I realise that this makes it a bit similar to The 37s, but it's far more fitting, and allows for the Voth's belief system to sit a lot better. Could it even be the same race?

    Teacake, lol how come? The fact it ties everything back to Earth?
     
  2. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    So I spent all yesterday in bed feeling sorry for myself with cold/flu. And watched quite a lot of Voyager too.

    Displaced
    Nice episode, liked the clandestine approach to taking over a spaceship. These guys are some pretty insidious aliens.

    Worst Case Scenario - Awesome episode. I absolutely loved this alternate take on the two crews. The fact everyone's moved on so much that it's now seen as a holonovel instead of what Tuvok originally intended it for. Plus it's a holodeck episode that isn't a malfunction, but something that's actually programmed to happen by a striking from the grave Seska. Genius. Also, and I'm not sure I've said this before, but I love Tuvok/Paris interplay.

    Scorpion
    Hellooo Seven of Nine. Well maybe not just yet. She's still full-on Borg here, but Jeri Ryan's hips still certainly sway. IF anything that might be might minor complaint. She does a great job as an ex-Borg trying to assimilate back to being human, but as a full Borg she has a bit too much feminine grace to her movements. All said, Scorpion is great, but not quite as epic as I remember it.

    The Gift - Seven doesn't want to be human. This is some really good stuff here, she really does come across as a little girl who has lost the only thing she knows. I'm not sure about Janeway's answer to "what if I get my independance back and want to go back?"
    Meanwhile Kes is becoming a God. So much of this episode reminded me of when she had her powers amped by the other Ocampa. The scenes between Janeway and Kes were great, and I wonder how close to Lien leaving they were filmed, because they both felt incredibly genuine.
    We also have our first shortcut. Ten years off, pretty nice.
    I also really liked that the Borg upgrades were still here. It's almost Scorpion part 3. Voyager can do continuity when it wants!

    Day of Honour
    And now they've gone. Well at least all the problems in Engineering feel like a logical progression of what happened previously. And Vorik's back! Finally B'elanna and Tom are together, that feels like it's been going on forever. Though it works quite well. But why in God's name does B'elanna's space suit have boobs? What if two members of the same sex were on board. Bloody stupid design.
    The interstellar beggars were nice, and I liked the final "Give the man a fishing rod and he'll eat for the rest of his life" solution. Though I think I'd have been on Chakotay's side of "We've got better weapons".

    Nemesis.
    Oh dear. Why did I have to watch one more episode. I was hoping for some Tom/B'elanna stuff now they're together. Instead I get Full Metal Starfleet.
    And why is Chakotay giving holier than thou peace speeches. Sure he's grown in the last three years, but he was freedom fighter before that, he might not agree with them, but he should understand them. Especially as they're in the middle of war. That whole bit just didn't sit right.
    Also yet another shuttlecraft. That's three in three episodes. We're really starting to go through them now.
    The ending was a nice twist to what I was expecting though. Oh, and I nearly made a Predator joke instead of Full Metal Jacket, which would have worked with the look of the aliens.
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think I reacted to the lessons and tieing everything back, yeah. It just seemed classically Roddenberry which is what it is.

    How many times have humans flung themselves out to the stars only to find something about uhh... humans out there. Does this happen to other species?
     
  4. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Figured I'd chime in with some thoughts of my own since I'm not that far behind the OP in my own Voyager (re)watch. I'm not going to cover every episode he/she has, but will offer some thoughts on a few of them:
    Fair Trade
    One of my favorite episodes of the season to date, and a really good character episode for Neelix.

    Blood Fever
    Another standout episode that really gives us some great character development for both Tom and B'Elanna, and serves to foreshadow their eventual relationship.

    Unity
    An extremely pivotal episode for Voyager as a whole as well as for the season, and a great way to bring the Borg into the series. I really wish we would've seen Riley Frazier and her Cooperative again, but it would've required them to have left their planet since Voyager was 'on the move', as it were.

    Rise
    I really don't understand the hatred for this episode; I liked the way it explored Neelix and Tuvok's relationship and gave us more backstory on Neelix, and I also really liked the concept, which didn't remind me of anything I'd seen before.

    Darkling
    Another ep that seems to be hated by many, but one that I, as a major fan of the Jekyll and Hyde story (particularly the Frank Wildhorn/Leslie Bricuse musical adaptation thereof), rather enjoyed.
     
  5. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    For me, I think the exploration of Tuvok and Neelix's relationship had been done before and better in previous episodes. The situation is certainly unique, but that wasn't enough to feel like the rest wasn't a retread.
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I liked Rise because it's quite different for Trek. I feel like it should be in black and white.
     
  7. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    It seems like my watching of season 3 fourteen years ago was sporadic, while season 4 I must have done a better job of keeping up with it, because I'm recognising far more here.

    Revulsion
    A serial killer hologram program. Pretty good. Especially helped by an amazing performance. I like it's portrayed as what would happen to the Doctor if the crew didn't turn around their opinion of them.


    The Raven
    I think this examination of Seven's back story is a bit soon. Not just that she's only just joined the crew, but also there's absolutely no one questioning how The Raven got some 60,000 light years from where it was last seen. That's a pretty big question for Janeway that just never even gets brought up. Non answer I can cope with, but not even asking it is unbelievable.
    Despite the timing, the actual story itself is fine. The idea that her implants pick up the signal, and it's immediately Borg because to her Borg is family is great. Seven's even more dramatic recursion to a child-like state when faced with her family's death was really well done

    Scientific Method
    I liked it, neat idea, someone clandestinely conducting experiments on the crew. Though the out of phase thing feels a little over-familiar, did Voyager over-rely on that trope or is it just me?
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Depending how far back you push Scientific Method it explains the nonsense in earlier episodes.

    Imagine they had been there for the last 5 episodes.

    (Cough)

    They kickstarted Kes' evolution into a cloud.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, but having them back there since Threshold is pushing it. ;)
     
  10. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Sorry R. Star? What episode are you talking about? I've never heard of one by that name ;)
     
  11. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Let me remind you! :)

    [​IMG]

    Unforgettable!
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No, I don't remember that happeinng in Unforgettable.

    Or is that a candid shot of Virginia Madsen without makeup?
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    As I've stated elsewhere, I loved "Revulsion", because Leland Orser just completely sells it with his performance. And the part of the show featuring him is such an effective little piece, using only 3 actors. And then there's the subplot with Harry and Seven-- "Take off your clothes."
     
  14. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah the evil hologram was quite convincing and definitely had a menacing air to him. As for the subplot.... Harry Kim, the dog chasing the car.... doesn't know what to do with it if he caught one. I think he's just afraid of all things sexual.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    No he was afraid of being assimilated. They are all a little bit afraid of 7 in the beginning. The Borg are still in many ways a mystery, but their true horror is that the Borg were us.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Men don't care about disease.

    Disease comes later.

    Worrying about later is for wussies.

    Sex now, disease later.
     
  17. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was going to wait till I caught up to the OP before posting some more of my own thoughts on the closing episodes of S3 and the start of S4, but decided to post things in blocks instead of all at once, so here we go with my own thoughts on Favorite Son through Distant Origin.

    Favorite Son
    I'm pretty sure TOS drew fairly heavily on myth as the inspiration for a lot of its story ideas, but I can't recall it bring done in TNG or DS9, which makes this episode fun because it's basically the Sci-Fi/Star Trek version of the Siren section of The Oddysey, which I thought was cool.

    Real Life
    Like the OP, I wasn't sure I was going to like this episode, but I ended up changing my mind. I liked both the A and B stories, although I do have to admit that I was skeptical about B'Elanna being the one to make the alterations to the Doctor's 'Family Life' holo-program.

    Tom's continued subtle flirting with B'Elanna was also fun, although it's rather ironic that she'll read Klingon romance novels while shunning pretty much every other aspect of her Klingon heritage.

    Before and After
    Kes happens to be one of my favorite characters on the show, and I also really like time travel stories, so I was already 'predisposed' towards enjoying this episode even if it had been horrible.... which it was far from.

    It reminded me a lot of both Endgame and TNG's All Good Things and Parallels, and the conceit of tying it to the Year of Hell and thereby creating some foreshadowing was a really neat creative decision.

    I also liked seeing what Kes would've gone through if she and Neelix had mated during the events of Elogium.

    The OP talked about how it was kind of jarring seeing Kes with long hair in the present without any explanation, and I agree, although I also think it works despite catching you a bit off-guard.

    Distant Origin
    I really enjoyed this episode. It reminded me of Tattoo, TNG's The Chase, and DS9's Vortex, and also served as a callback of sorts to Threshold (at least for me).

    I also liked the fact that it not only referenced Basics P2 and Fair Trade, it gave us new info about the latter by showing us that one of the items Voyager had used for trade for the items they acquired was a canister of the warp plasma they'd traded for with the Tak-Tak.

    The whole 'alien Galileo' ending was also neat, although I really wanted Chakotay to smack the Voth Minister in the face.
     
  18. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    This didn't occur to me when I watched it, but reading your sum-up. Notice how the kids the son falls in with are Klingon, and he wants to embrace Klingon warrior culture. If the Doctor wasn't going through such a harrowing ordeal that's some Freudian programming by B'elanna right there.
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    B'Elanna wished she herself was dead and transferred that... No, too early, the deathwish is later.
     
  20. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've now caught up to the OP in my viewing.

    Displaced
    I really liked the Nyrians. I thought it was neat that they weren't your typical villains, and don't think the episode wouldn't have been as effective if it had been more "To Serve Man" the way that director Allan Kroeker thought it should've been

    Worst Case Scenario
    The best thing about this episode is that it perfectly sums up Season 3 while also serving as a nice callback to Season 1, demonstrating just how far the show has come in two years, which is why it's kind of disappointing that we didn't see Kes in the present in her new long-haired look.

    Scorpion, Parts 1 and 2
    I've always been a big fan of both the Borg and Seven of Nine, but had never seen these particular episodes before, and have to say that for all the complaints Voyager gets as far as its usage of the Borg is concerned, this is for me one of the best Borg episodes in all of Star Trek, and might actually be better than TNG's The Best of Both Worlds, and Jeri Ryan is an excellent addition to the cast even though she doesn't appear until Part 2.

    The Gift
    The behind-the-scenes drama that surrounded Jennifer Lien's departure from the show neither interests nor concerns me. All I care about is the way the 'transition' from Voyager with Kes to Voyager without Kes is handled, and I really enjoyed the episode. Centering it on both the departing Kes and still-acclimating Seven really helped make the transition a smooth and fulfilling one.

    Nemesis
    I watched this episode in Production Order and think it works just as well as it would have in Original Airing Order, even though watching it in this order means that you go from Seven 'officially' joining the crew in The Gift to an episode in which she doesn't even appear.

    As for the episode itself, I really liked the whole 'propaganda' aspect of the story, and it really reminded me in a lot of ways of the first two episodes of BSG Season 3.

    Day of Honor
    I really liked both the A and B stories in this episode, as they're centered on 3 of my favorite Voyager characters in Seven, Tom, and B'Elanna. "B'Elanna's Bad Day" was the perfect vehicle for exploring her character individually and evolving her burgeoning relationship with Tom, and dovetailing that story with Seven trying to integrate herself with the crew and the external complications that result.

    Revulsion
    I've got a soft spot for episodes that deal with Holograms or Holographic programs that either aren't what they seem or that go awry in some manner, and consequently really enjoyed this episode. The B story involving Harry and Seven was also enjoyable, although there are places where it feels like it would've worked better if it were to have been produced and/or aired after The Raven.

    The Raven
    I know there are some - including the PTBs on the show - who felt like this story came a little too soon, but I have to disagree. I think you needed to do this story this early in Seven's tenure on the show because of the way she came onto the ship. Juxtaposing Seven's "Pied Piper" experience with the story of the overbearing B'omar was also a brilliant decision and really helped enhance that already-strong story.

    Scientific Method
    The Memory Alpha article for this ep compares it to TNG's Schisms, but it reminded me more of the Enterprise episode Vox Sola and the Babylon 5 episode where Sheridan gets abducted and experimented on.

    One of the things that I liked that sets this ep apart from those two episodes, though, is the way it explores Tom and B'Elanna's relationship. Their conversation at the end of the story where they kind of tongue-in-cheek question the validity of their relationship is the perfect summation of who their characters are.

    I also liked getting to see Janeway be a badass again because that's always fun.