Voyager accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Dream, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    http://www.avclub.com/articles/star-trek-voyager-accidentally-presided-over-the-f,98207/

    That article makes several good points like how the writers themselves seem to ignore the fact that the ship was lost and on its own after the first few episode, it felt more like a field trip than a ship in a dangerous situation on its own.

    Also I think it was a mistake to ditch the ensemble focus half way through the series. TOS always had the big three, but one of my complaints with that series was that rest of the crew was background noise most of the time. It might have worked when that show aired, but modern Trek needed an entire crew. There was no need to keep characters like Harry Kim so underdeveloped just so we could get more Seven of Nine episodes.
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2013
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Who are those ugly men in your avatar Dream?
     
  3. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Deep Space Nine and the TNG movies share equal "blame"

    Personally, I couldn't give a shit about ratings or finger pointing. I very much enjoyed Voyager (and to a lesser extent, DS9)
     
  5. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    DS9 and Voyager cannibalized each others ratings in the US. Here in the UK they did better as Sky broadcast both.
     
  6. RyuRoots

    RyuRoots Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But that's not how you spell "Star Trek: Enterprise"

    Seriously, that abomination did more ill for this franchise than Voyager, not that Voyager didn't make some pretty significant contribution to the drain-circling.
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The franchise was extremely fine up until Enterprise. Enterprise (or rather "Series V") was highly anticipated. Shit started to go down with every new bit of information about it. Prequel. No Star Trek in the title. Rock song opening. First the promise to make it all different, but then the information that a Klingon shows up in the first minute. And all that shit.

    DS9 and Voyager are so different from each other that they certainly didn't do that.
     
  8. Avon

    Avon Commodore Commodore

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    up until this thread i assumed voyager was purposefully bad to drive away viewers and now i find out it was an accident. the things you learn here!
     
  9. Lt. Cheka Wey

    Lt. Cheka Wey Commander

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    What was wrong with DS 9?

    Best Trek ever.
     
  10. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    True.
     
  11. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    For DS9, I think that its reach was often greater than its grasp.

    Voyager was, on balance, a good Trek series, with about the same mix of good/bad episodes as the others.

    My criteria of episode quality is usually, "would I watch it again?" I'd peg TOS at around 60%; TNG at 60%; DS9 at 40%; VOY at 50%; and ENT at 55%. Those are just guesses on my part--I haven't gone through the episode lists and done a real calculation. Plus, a lot of it changes based on where I'm at. Now that I'm more settled and with a family, the more family-like Voyager appeals more to me.

    IMHO, Voyager does very well compared to DS9. Both had their share of TNG-lite episodes. Voyager, I thought, had stronger acting from the core group, with DS9's secondary and recurring characters stealing the show. Imagine if you could have had Gul Dukat instead of Kullah as Janeway's big season 1 foil. They've both got their share of great episodes and horrible ones. Everyone bangs on about DS9 being episodic, but I feel like that final arc got away from the writers after the episode where O'Brien and Bashir chased the Section 31 guy around his own brain, so that wasn't necessarily a strength.

    Why the high score for ENT, by the way? I threw out most of seasons 1&2, and kept in most of 3&4. Had it gone on for another 3 seasons, it's possible that number would be a lot lower.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    It's hard to take seriously an article whose title says that VOY "accidentally presided over the franchise’s decline", but then within it drops zingers like, "The main reason Voyager fails to make as strong an impression as its counterparts is its bland characters and repetitive stories."

    No, if it's due to its own incompetence, there wasn't anything "accidental" about presiding over the franchise's decline at all. What kind of average viewer wants to watch bland characters and repetitive stories?
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    DS9 IMO has the fewest skip episodes out of all Treks. But, if you ignore the first two seasons, TNG does.

    But neither show are the sort of show that would ever attract a crossover audience the way TOS and TNG could.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Literally?

    I like it as foreshadowing. The best foreshadowing is the stuff you shove in their yourself because it wasn't written that way.
     
  15. Galekarens

    Galekarens Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I liked DS9 well enough, but don't care to watch the episodes again (altho I might take another look at season 7, since I don't remember watching that season as closely as the others), but I can watch the Voyager episodes over and over again (well most of them, not all of course) and enjoy.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I rarely watch DS9 without it being a complete rewatch because of the arcs.

    VOY's double eps are as good as a movie, I've watched all of those many times. And ENT's double and triple eps in season 4 I've rewatched a lot as well.
     
  17. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    How did they do that? DS9 was syndicated, and VOY was on the UPN network.
     
  18. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    No, just figuratively.
     
  19. Gaith

    Gaith Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Agreed, but I think the larger mistake was always focusing so purely on the senior staff plus Doctor/Kes/Neelix/7 at all. Earlier shows could get away with having the rest of the crew be mere background extras, but both VOY and ENT should have had a lot more "Lower Decks"-type interaction with the rest of their crews.

    As it is, even the good VOY eps tend to have what I like to call a "Sitcom Trek Voyager" feel, for just that reason.
     
  20. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    I think that was his point. In some markets, DS9 and Voyager went up against each other. That wouldn't happen if they were on the same network.