Spoilers VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Aug 20, 2012.

?

Rate The Eternal Tide.

  1. Outstanding

    84 vote(s)
    47.7%
  2. Above Average

    55 vote(s)
    31.3%
  3. Average

    29 vote(s)
    16.5%
  4. Below Average

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  5. Poor

    6 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. RonG

    RonG Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Location:
    Fluidic Space
    Don;t get me started on ENT - the Relaunch novels were not to my liking, though they had quite a bit of potential. I agree that we may have seen the last of ENT for the foreseeable future.

    IMO DS9 is quite far from the TV series, cast and setting-wise. VOY, OTOH and from what I understand, is back in the DQ with its full cast (sans Tuvok for now at least).

    I have nothing against Beyer's ability to develop the cast of characters - far from it. It's just that the very idea of reverting the setting (if not the series proper) to an earlier status quo (whether caused by fan reaction, editorial demand or other reasons entirely) doesn't make me want to follow the Janeway-led VOY arc/s.

    I don't presume to know the reasons for this development, and I suspect we'll never get the full story on this, I just don't like the character of Janeway and the VOY stories I read with her in charge.

    That's not to say that if I come across an interesting premise for a VOY novel, I'll boycott it - that would be stupid IMO. Just where once I followed Beyer's VOY novels without question, I'll now be a more discerning customer.
     
  2. Csalem

    Csalem Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Location:
    Dublin, Ireland
    Finished it this morning and was another great Voyager novel, not as good as the previous three, but still pretty damn good. Was disappointed to see the ships destroyed as I liked the idea of the fleet of ships so I hope that dynamic is restored soon, with some of the characters saved. Sad to see Eden go, but I think her time had come. Can't wait for the next book.
     
  3. JWolf

    JWolf Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2005
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    The quality of the book has to do (IMHO) with the fact that you have a good grasp of the characters and you have a good way of telling a story that incorporates this. Your Voyager books have been far better then the Golden mess we ended up with. You took what was a Titanic mess and managed to patch the holes, drain the water and keep the ship afloat.

    As for being awesome, we are only praising your books because you did such a good job writing them and making them enjoyable.
     
  4. Kirsten Beyer

    Kirsten Beyer Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    JWolf...thanks for that. Really nice to hear. The "awesomness" I was referring to was not so much the praise, though it is always appreciated, but more the surprising things that often come up in these discussions. It reminds me of how many different ways there are to look at a thing and is incredibly refreshing when I've spent too long buried in an outline or manuscript.

    And Enterpriserules...yes, I read your review and was delighted that some of the more metaphysical aspects of the story worked for you. It can be a tough line to walk and I think a lot of people aren't comfortable going there. It's supposed to be "science" fiction after all. But in this case, given where we started and where we had to go, the spiritual aspects kept resonating so I decided to trust it. It's not something that every story calls for, but it is an aspect of humanity that I find every bit as interesting and worthy of exploration as any other if the context is appropriate and it serves the story.

    Everybody else...

    We all knew before this book came out that there were a number of people on the planet who could not, under any circumstances, be moved to read a Voyager book that did not feature a living, breathing Kathryn Janeway. In fact, we've met many of them over the past few years. It should not, then, surprise you that now, there will be a number of people who, likewise, are not inclined to read stories that do feature a living, breathing Kathryn Janeway. For any number of reasons. It's a fair choice to make and any effort to disuade them is not likely meet with much success.

    I knew this going in. I'm okay with it. Everyone has a right to spend their money, or much more valuable time only on those things they believe will entertain or satisfy them as readers. At the end of the day, the reasons why this story was written don't matter. The story works or doesn't work on its merits for any given reader. Full stop.

    I spent a lot of time in the past trying to explain the reasons we were exploring Janeway's death to those who were angered by it, and it never made the slightest bit of difference. In fact, my efforts tended to further alienate those individuals. They formed opinions of me that bear absolutely no resemblence to the genuine article, and usually decided that I was simply lying to them, or playing politics.

    What I learned through that process was that no amount of explanation or justification or defense of my position was a worthwhile way to spend my time, because it changed nothing. So now I find myself facing a new group of disappointed people who I have already angered by writing what I have. And all I know is that to try and defend myself or justify my choices would be equally meaningless.

    I am content to let those who are unhappy or angry or disappointed say what they need to say. The usernames may not be the same. But the perspective isn't anything I haven't seen before. Nothing I can tell you about why I made the choices I did is going to make the story work better for you.

    And who knows...maybe as the story continues, current objections might seem less objectionable, and current fears may be allayed.

    Or not.

    Either way...understand that when I send a story out into the world, I hope that it will be met in the spirit in which it was intended but I am not permitted to be surprised when it isn't. That part is out of my control. The best I can hope for might be a little faith, even from those I have disappointed, particularly when I had managed to grudingly earn it in the past. I've learned again over these past few weeks, that in some cases, this is just too much to ask. When people feel angry, or wronged, or that their trust has been broken, they can often be unkind. But I sleep just fine at night, knowing that I have done what I can to keep this story and series alive and compelling. And that nothing I have planned for the future is anything we've seen before. I write these stories from a place of deep love and respect for the characters and their journeys and always with the hope that following the character's adventures will bring the readers something they can't find anywhere else. I think most of my readers sense that, even when they don't understand all of my choices. And to those that don't...

    Peace and long life.

    Kirsten
     
  5. RonG

    RonG Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Location:
    Fluidic Space
    Kirsten, your comments are very heartfelt and insightful. I think that expressing your opinions / feelings on this board the way you have, serves only to bring you and your readership closer.

    As for my comments on this thread and the novel:
    I've started the novel yesterday, and so far found it to be engrossing and a very good read. But that doesn't surprise me, based on my opinion of your previous VOY novels.

    I just want to clarify my previous posts: I have indeed expressed my disappointment in the decision to bring Janeway back and I fully admit that there's a chance that this will be my final VOY novel for awhile - or not - based on my opinion after reading The Eternal Tide. This, however, does not reflect on your writing, but rather on what I see as an editorial direction I have a hard time connecting with.

    With that in mind, I hope to see your name attached to other Trek settings/series, as you've managed to make me care about VOY, and that's quite a hard task :)

    .. so, when are you writing Titan or Enterprise? ;)
     
  6. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    Kirsten, you know how you the old saying goes- You can please some of the nerds all of the time and you can please all of the nerds some of the time.

    Keep doing quality work and you have no shortage of fans.
     
  7. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the
    I really appreciate you taking the time to read my review of your book and responding to me. Thank you for your kind words.
     
  8. scnj

    scnj Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2009
    Here's what my favourite part of all this was.
     
  9. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I HAVE FINISHED IT.

    An excellent and fast paced story with a multitude of diverse characters and perspectives written in very convincing voices. I particularly enjoyed the Q's. I'm also very happy we've seen the last of the baby messiah storyline! I'm looking fwd to quite a few things in the next novel.. finding out possibly what happened to all the people trapped in Omega. Icheb (yay Icheb!) being on board. 7 and Cambridge, that's a fantastic relationship and as a devoted 7 fan I'm super pleased about it. And of course Janeway, Janeway and MORE JANEWAY.
     
  10. Markonian

    Markonian Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2012
    Location:
    Yorkshire, UK
    They died.
     
  11. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    In the future's past
    Yeah. All dead. Kirsten said it upthread I believe.
     
  12. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Oh.

    So that's 63 billion and how many?
     
  13. Stephen!

    Stephen! Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2008
    Location:
    England
    Maybe from a story telling perspective, keeping track of so many ships and their crews becomes convoluted, so it's easier to "scale down" the fleet.
     
  14. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Let them die!

    Oh wait, that's Kirk.
     
  15. RonG

    RonG Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Location:
    Fluidic Space
    Finished the book yesterday night.

    Basically, it was great (though the opening duology of Full Circle and Unworthy can't be beat, VOY-wise :)) – very exciting and insightful.

    TET is a worthy "finale" for Kirsten's 1st VOY arc, tying up the main plotline of Eden's origin, along with showcasing the aftermath of the Destiny trilogy from other facets than the UFP's hardship or the political angle.

    All in all, though I thought otherwise, I won’t miss the next VOY novel by Kirsten.

    Well played, Madam :cool:
     
  16. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2005
    Location:
    On an Andorian Atlire-class escort cruisers, the
    Well said!
     
  17. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Arizona, USA
    Does TET deal with Meegan at all?
     
  18. Kirsten Beyer

    Kirsten Beyer Writer Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Seven hundred and ninety five.

    ;) Glad to have you back. Or not gone. Either way...

    Really really really briefly. That story remains to be told.

    Best,
    Kirsten Beyer
     
  19. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I gotta say, I'm glad the Klingon Messiah storyline is finished. Bit confused as to what actually happened to them all.. but glad to see the back of that one.

    :adore: <--that's just for Janeway being back!!
     
  20. RonG

    RonG Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2007
    Location:
    Fluidic Space
    What can I say - I couldn't stay away ;)

    I was wondering what was up with Meegan - hope this is covered in the 2014 (!) novel