Spoilers VOY: The Eternal Tide by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Aug 20, 2012.

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Rate The Eternal Tide.

  1. Outstanding

    84 vote(s)
    47.7%
  2. Above Average

    55 vote(s)
    31.3%
  3. Average

    29 vote(s)
    16.5%
  4. Below Average

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  5. Poor

    6 vote(s)
    3.4%
  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Ok, I apologize for you people. I honestly didn't think about how the term is used most often, and I realize now it was a bad way to phrase what I was trying to say. I honestly didn't mean to be offensive, hell I never meant to offend anyone with what I've been posting. I'm just talking about how I feel compared to how people like you feel, and why I find your attitude confusing. I didn't mean to offend you or say that there is anything wrong with how you feel. I just don't feel that way, and was honestly shocked that people do feel that way. That was all I ever meant by what I've been posting.
     
  2. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks JD.

    And XYZ...no. See we are not butthurting over anything. You see...we won. :guffaw:
     
  3. Galekarens

    Galekarens Commander Red Shirt

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    No, they are objecting to being called "silly" or dishonest, or "extremists", and also being told others are "sad" for them for not agreeing with the others' literary preferences. And still after getting what they asked for in TET (no matter who decided it, or why), there are still by some such postings here, even then! :eek:
     
  4. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    :techman: So I think we can all agree that at this point it would be best to just agree to disagree and move on.
     
  5. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Indeed, you won.
    And you still manage to be offended by anything - even statements that are in no way offensive.
    This is how an extremist too invested in something to let it go, even after he 'won', acts.
     
  6. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    Um like you are in this post. Correct?
     
  7. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Hardly.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's a really, really terrible analogy, because the show was not called Janeway, it was called Star Trek: Voyager. It was not built around a single core character like Batman, but was an ensemble series. A better analogy would be a team book like Justice League -- which has gone through many cast changes over the years.

    Plus, as JD said, they did kill Bruce Wayne, and the stories that followed were pretty interesting. Personally I'm sorry they brought him back, at least so soon. Or at least they should've let Dick Grayson remain Batman, maybe serving on the JL while Bruce handled Gotham. Permanent change is not a bad thing in an ongoing series.


    Why? It's named for the ship. Shows have changed lead characters before. Babylon 5 went from Sinclair to Sheridan. CSI went from Grissom to Langton to Russell. Earth: Final Conflict went from Boone to Kincaid to Palmer. Even Blake's 7, a show that was named for its main character, continued for two years after that main character was written out of the show.


    No, she really isn't, because it's not a two-person show, it's a nine-person show. And overall, Chakotay ended up being about fourth in prominence after Janeway, Seven, and the Doctor. A better analogy might be Janeway as Superman, Seven as Batman, the Doctor as Wonder Woman, and Chakotay as Green Lantern or Flash.


    You're misreading this completely. No, your position doesn't dictate story choices, but neither does mine (unless I'm the one writing the story) and neither does anyone else's. We're not telling you we're better than you, just that no faction of fandom, yours or anyone else's, dictates the choices of the people who write and edit the novels. Seriously, you need to get over this sense of persecution. It's just not what's happening here.


    That is a blatant lie. I recall several posts in this very thread from people saying that they were opposed to the idea of Janeway returning, but really liked The Eternal Tide. They did change their minds.


    Ohh, there was a ton of argument over that. I'm sure that if you actually attempted to gather evidence by using the board's search function, you'd find that was true.


    It's pretty strange that you're still reiterating that old argument now, when Janeway has, in fact, been brought back by the people in charge of Trek novels.


    That's not even close to the message. As I suggested before, there may be reasons why Janeway fans feel they've been persecuted in the past, but it's a mistake to assume the people in the Trek Lit community are participants in that persecution. You're just hearing what you expect to hear rather than what's really being said. You need to learn to lower your defenses and try actually listening. Especially now when Janeway actually is back and there's really nothing to fight over anymore.
     
  9. Galekarens

    Galekarens Commander Red Shirt

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    The BBKJ fans listened plenty, more than enough, and heard over and over how mistaken and/or misguided they were, and they're STILL hearing that, even though they did get what they advocated for (no matter why it was decided that way), amazing (well not really- just MO of course) !
     
  10. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    See. I knew it wouldn't take you long to come in here to tell me how wrong I am and how my facts are wrong. You know because you were my favorite author I let you make me think that some how if I disagreed with your opinions that I was the one wrong. But that was a mistake on my part. After years of reading your posts I realize that it's predictable ...you're responses.

    But nothing you said up there or anywhere else the last 5 years makes you any more right than I am.

    Because of this thread I'm reminded of one of my favorite Kathryn Janeway scenes...

     
  11. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sooooo... any comments on the actual subject of this thread?

    I enjoyed the relationship between Q and Janeway. I honestly think that Q has a closer relationship with Janeway than he does with Picard.
    Here is a comment that I found interesting. Q(junior) is of the opinion that the Q did not reproduce because they were uncertain what they would create. Is it possible that the "child" of two Q is stronger than a "original" Q?
     
  12. Violet.Phoenix

    Violet.Phoenix Commander Red Shirt

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    It's an interesting idea to consider, and since the Q don't reproduce in the same manner that humans do we can look at other possibilities. Instead of q receiving half of his "Q-ness" from his mother and half from his father (which would result in him having the same amount of power as his parents) he could have more if the full potential of his parents was passed on to him.

    I think of it like this:

    a) half from each parent (let x represent the Q's power):

    1/2x + 1/2x = x

    So q ends up with the same amount of power as each of his parents.

    b) full potential of each parent:

    x + x = 2x

    But in this case he would have twice his parents' power.

    It would probably be far more complicated than this since the Q do not operate on finite principles like we do. Also, I am by no means an expert in genetics or exobiology, so this is just my hypothesis.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    My opinions have nothing to do with this. Fact and opinion are two entirely separate things. Opinions are personal and nobody can take them away from you, but facts are objective, and nobody has the right to support their opinions by distorting or misrepresenting the facts. If you say "I like Janeway and prefer to read stories about her," that is an opinion and I can't argue with it. But if you say "The people who disagree with me are incapable of changing their minds" -- in the very thread where several of them have already declared that they changed their minds -- then that is simply, unambiguously wrong.

    But clearly you're prejudiced to see an argument based in objectivity as some kind of further persecution against you, so there's no point in continuing this conversation.


    Why not x * x = x^2? Or... dare I say it... Q Squared?
     
  14. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why not x * x = x^2? Or... dare I say it... Q Squared?[/QUOTE]


    Hah! Q squared!

    Just as a child is a unique blend of two sets of DNA and can thus have abilities that his or her parents do not have, perhaps Q(junior) simply had some natural resistance to the Omega continuum. Perhaps that is what the Q feared, a change to the status quo, something new and different.
     
  15. Violet.Phoenix

    Violet.Phoenix Commander Red Shirt

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    I honestly can't think of a reason why not (like I said, I'm no geneticist), but when I was thinking of the addition, I was thinking of combining parts into a new whole. I do think that the x*x = x^2 also works as that still gives a new result from a combination. Although, perhaps I should change my variable from x to Q ;) :lol:
     
  16. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    I think that is what was mentioned in the book. The whole reason Junior had to go instead if letting his father face off Eden was for that reason.

    Here's my question: I wonder why Q and the Female Q can't just mate again.

    On a side what Eternal Tide gave me more than a Janeway return was a chance to reflect on my own spiritual beliefs. It made me seriously consider what life after death really means.
     
  17. Jedi_Master

    Jedi_Master Vice Admiral Admiral

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    All I know is that I still laugh whenever I think of the scene where Q and Q "mated".

    'Was I good?'

    'oh you were VERY good'
     
  18. Violet.Phoenix

    Violet.Phoenix Commander Red Shirt

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    I just remember Q saying to Janeway "Don't you like to watch?" :guffaw:

    And then Janeway's shocked expression afterwards. "That was it?!" :lol:

    That episode had some good laughs in it.
     
  19. Shane Houston

    Shane Houston Commander Red Shirt

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    Pot calling the kettle black much? You're calling me prejudiced? No, I have to disagree. If I was as prejudiced as you claimed I never would have bought Full Circle and Unworthy when they first came out of either of the two DTI books. Because my prejuice for how Janeway's death in Before Dishonor and my feelings towards your words here on the BBS would have kept me from buying them. I have the ability to be open minded enough to listen to other peoples words instead of being on the trigger to shoot them down.


    Again nothing you have said tonight is anymore right than anything I said. You like facts let that one sink in.

    Beyer is now my favorite author not because of my opinion of you or her personally. It's because Full Circle and Eternal Tide has helped me more than just entertain me. I've experienced the loss of my Uncle and Aunt and best friend all in three years time. I went through phases of grief that is portrayed in Full Circle and the hope there is something better after we die in Eternal Tide. That's why I enjoy reading your work so much. The books the two of you write both entertain me and also make me think. You're still one of my favorite writers. But I disagree with how you've handled yourself in the Janeway discussions over the last few years.

    I guess I'm going to end this discussion tonight by telling myself...

    Dismissed. That's a Starfleet expression for Get Out.

    Goodnight.
     
  20. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Halliwell I wanted to say I am sorry to hear about your losses over the course of a few short years. I know this will never help much but I wanted you to know that my heart goes out to you.