VOY: Children of the Storm by Kirsten Beyer Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Thrawn, May 23, 2011.

?

Rate Children Of The Storm.

  1. Outstanding

    69 vote(s)
    53.1%
  2. Above Average

    43 vote(s)
    33.1%
  3. Average

    12 vote(s)
    9.2%
  4. Below Average

    2 vote(s)
    1.5%
  5. Poor

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  1. CaptainDonovin

    CaptainDonovin Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2006
    Location:
    Labrador City. woof
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Finally got my copy. The one I ordered from amazon never arrived so the overnighted a new one. Like it so far.

    I always liked Chakotay, wanted more stories with him instead of mor of the singing hologram.
     
  2. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    What I'm sying is I felt he should have been more of a free spirit. Ethical, more, and non-selfish, yes but also more willing to stand up to Janeway when he felt she was wrong. He left Starfleet because he felt starfleet had lost its moral compass and had betrayed his people. i wanted to see him stand up to Janeway more, at least in private. There could have been some excellent debates between them such as whether or not to go after the omega particle but instead he always seemed to be a yes man.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Huh? That's exactly what did happen in episodes like "Scorpion" and "Equinox." Chakotay's arguments with Janeway over the right course of action, bordering on open defiance of policies he thought was wrong, were major driving factors in both those 2-parters. So he certainly didn't always defer to her.
     
  4. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    Location:
    On the USS Sovereign
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Just finished. It was all right, although I am uncertain if the large cast of ships crew are a benefit or detremental to the Delta Quadrant story.
     
  5. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    But I don't think he ever challenged her anymore than any starfleet officers did their captains. First season Kira challenged Sisko more. I wanted some drama on the level of Lily and Picard in FC. Chakotay wasn't enough of a free thinker to me. His personality was definitely never explored as well in the show as it is in the books. I feel like I didn't get to know Chakotay as an individual until the relaunch.
     
  6. bok2384

    bok2384 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Location:
    Warwickshire, UK
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Quoted for absolute truth. True, Chakotay did challenge Janeway a couple of times, but she just steamrolled him. Look at "Scorpion, Part II", when Chakotay dared to defy the wishes of the all-powerful Janeway by ending the alliance with the Borg, she relieved him of duty and locked him up in his quarters.

    Considering how she treated him, I'm not surprised that he didn't stand up to her more often, although when he did it felt like lip service. As a result, Chakotay was my least favorite character, but Full Circle took him, sent him to hell and back and, as a result, gave us all a shared experience and insight into the man and a new-found respect.

    OK, maybe he was a quiet and spiritual man who wasn't all about shouting his mouth off and defying the rules like Kira, but as first officer it was his job to make Janeway see that some of her decisions were misguided, maybe even moronic.

    Just my two cents. :D

    Edited to add: Maybe the problem is not just confined to Chakotay. I fail to recall a single incident where a member of her crew were able to change Janeway's mind. I may be wrong, I'm rewatching Voyager at the moment, but I'm only up to "Eye of the Needle".
     
  7. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    USA--smack dab in the middle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    There are times when Janeway listens. Chakotay spoke up in "Unimatrix Zero," refusing to support her desire to go to the Borg alone, and Janeway revised her plans. In "Night," the crew defies her when she suggests staying behind as the ship escapes. Again, she modifies her plans. In "Year of Hell," when Chakotay suggests that it might be time to abandon the ship, she doesn't disagree, she just says, "Not yet." In the episode "Omega Directive," she abandons her Starfleet orders and lets the crew help her deal with the problem. So, yeah, she does listen.

    What we see of their interaction focuses on times of conflict, because that is what is interesting. However, I think they might have worked more closely on some plans than was ever shown on the program. There were probably many (unfilmed) times where he confronted her in the planning stages and influenced her final decision. To show that week after week would have been deadly dull.

    The real relationship between Janeway and Chakotay is largely undeveloped. In later seasons, their interaction is often filmed as they walk through the ship, for some reason. But we know that they met regularly after hours for meals and that they probably talked through situations and scenarios in exhaustive detail. One thing I've noticed is that they almost always have fallback positions and contingency plans in place ahead of time.

    Of course, I'm talking about the series here, not the book. Haven't read it.
     
  8. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    USA--smack dab in the middle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2011
  9. Paris

    Paris Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2008
    Location:
    In the future's past
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Both Lily and Kira were not Starfleet officers. Kira only became one for a specific mission to Cardassia in season 7 of DS9, and then officially in the relaunch. Lily was from 21st century Earth...

    But I do agree that the Kirsten's relaunch has been amazing for Captain Chakotay and his personality :techman:
     
  10. bok2384

    bok2384 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Location:
    Warwickshire, UK
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

     
  11. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    USA--smack dab in the middle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    As you rewatch the series, be aware of the fact that many of her "adjustments" do not happen on screen--and realize that those changes may very well be a result of consultation with her crew. An example of this is the cooperative approach she and Chakotay use to anticipate problems with Seven in "Scorpion, Part 2." It happens during the commercial break. Another example is from "Equinox, Part 2," after she sends Chakotay to his quarters. She finally agrees to contact the aliens who provided the method of calling the aliens that Ransom used to power his ship. It's by dealing with them directly--exactly what Chakotay had been proposing--that she is able to save the ship. Again, this change happens off screen.

    I don't know why the writers didn't show these collaborations on screen, but I suspect that they were not "exciting" enough. I often felt that the episodes had barely enough time to be well presented in the 42 minutes that are available in an hour-long program. I personally think "Shattered" offers us the clearest view of Janeway's management style, because we see her and Chakotay talking things through as they try to restore the ship. There is this conversation, for example:

    CHAKOTAY: I suggest we take a page from your rule book. We try diplomacy.
    JANEWAY: Fine, but the next page in that book says that when diplomacy fails, we need a backup plan.
    CHAKOTAY: Something tells me you already have one.

    While I am mildly disappointed to see fans repeat the oft-stated (overstated?) claim that Janeway is arrogant, overly confident, and isolated, I am truly dismayed when PB writers echo those sentiments. I think, like you, all of them need to rewatch the series after taking off their "blinders." :lol:
     
  12. bok2384

    bok2384 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2006
    Location:
    Warwickshire, UK
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    I'll definitely be keeping an open mind during the rewatch. Already, Janeway is rising in my estimation and I even have an example of her attitude being readjusted by Kes in "Eye of the Needle" when she insists that the Doctor is just a hologram and not a living being.

    I hope to find other examples as I continue on. :) The more I watch though, the more I'm starting to see some comparisons between Janeway and Kirk. That's can't be a bad thing.

    As for the writers have the view of Janeway as being arrogant, I agree that while some do, most notably Peter David in Before Dishonor, others deal with her very well. Although Janeway isn't present in the relaunch novels by Kirsten Beyer (excluding Full Circle) her presence is clearly there in the hearts, souls and thoughts of the others.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Which won't be the last time that Janeway is forced to question her prejudices concerning the Doctor and readjust her thinking.
     
  14. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2003
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN USA
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

     
  15. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    USA--smack dab in the middle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    True. She and THE REST OF THE CREW tried to save him from a guilt feedback loop that threatened to disable his program by erasing certain problematic memories. In this case, she once again listened to criticism, this time from Seven, and decided to try another solution. In fact, she personally assisted him as he tried to work through the problem ("Latent Image").

    She also treated him like a real person, probably more often. She lets him be "sent" to earth in order to help his creator, Dr. Zimmerman, recover from what was thought to be a fatal illness, even though there was a chance he wouldn't be able to return ("Lifeline"). She was almost too easy on him when he betrayed them to the photonic rebels in "Flesh and Blood" because she felt equally responsible for having provided the Hirogen with a holographic technology. And, she was willing to let him stay behind "for love" in "Virtuoso." To me, these are very significant actions on her part and shouldn't be overlooked.

    It's easy to fall into a negative Janeway attitude if you pick and choose certain episodes and fail to look at the entire series. Ignoring the positive things she does is really unfair to the character. In the case of the EMH, in the long run, Janeway eventually treats him the same as she does her "flesh and blood" crew, even passionately defending his rights as a writer in "Author, Author."
     
  16. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    The problem with the character of Janeway is not that she "didn't listen." She did -- sometimes. And she also didn't -- sometimes.

    The real problem with the Janeway character was that she was inconsistently-written. Her motivations and values would change from episode to episode, without any particular dramatic purpose or context. Her character -- like most of VOY's characters -- was fundamentally arbitrary, because the writing and characterization on VOY was fundamentally arbitrary. It's like Robert Duncan McNeil has said -- the attitude that the highest-up producers had was that the ship was the star, not the characters.
     
  17. MatthiasRussell

    MatthiasRussell Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 3, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    ^ I think all the characters had inconsistent writing in the show. There was also little feeling of effect or impact from previous events. The crew couldn't have off screen shore leave and drydock visits between episodes like in TNG. Sometimes it felt like every week the characters were different and uneffected by personal developments. A failing which the books have fixed.
     
  18. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    USA--smack dab in the middle
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    This may be true in the most recent novels by Beyer. Otherwise, I'd have to disagree about the books "fixing" the characters.
     
  19. sfroth

    sfroth Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2009
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Finally finished reading both the book and this crazy thread. Overall, I really enjoyed the book.

    I especially loved the way Kirsten wrote the O'Donnell/Fife stuff. Starting out, I really felt like Fife was in the right, and O'Donnell was the one who needed to be taken out. Then, slowly, Kirsten gave us more of a window into both of their thought processes, and brought us to the point where Fife was obviously the one in the wrong. It was a smooth, book-long transition that really worked for me.

    My main mark against the book is Eden's function aboard Voyager. I cringed every time I saw her give orders to Voyager's crew regarding the running of the ship - the job of the ship's captain if ever there was one. The worst example (but not the only one) was in chapter 25: "Mister Paris, the bridge is yours. Captain Chakotay, with me, please." ... Shouldn't the Captain of the ship decide who is running it when he's not on the bridge? This could be chalked up to the fact that, until recently, Eden was the captain of the ship, but it was still out of place for me. The reason I gripe about it is because I felt like Chakotay was marginalized in the book. He should be in charge of his ship, and I felt like he instead spent most of this book as just Eden's sounding board/conscience/rival/whatever, as he was for Janeway in most of Voyager's run. Reducing him back to that role is a step backwards for the character, in my opinion.
     
  20. Zorkel567

    Zorkel567 Ensign Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 6, 2011
    Re: Star Trek: Voyager: Children Of The Storm Review Thread

    Quick question- do we know what year this takes place in? And also, is is set before or after the Typon Pact miniseries?