Vessel dimensions & masses

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Bill Morris, Feb 8, 2009.

  1. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    Here's a chart generated from the scripts for the MSD-style information displays in my LCARS system. It's often hard to get good information, and maybe I can get some help here.

    I have a gallery of those displays here (with these figures near the bottom of each screen), although I haven't updated the gallery with the latest changes in figures for mass taken from two recent Trek Tech threads from the last couple of days yet. The chart below, however, does show those latest figures.

    Gallery: Starfleet Schematics
    http://lcars24.com/starfleet.html

    The dimensions for the Nebula class are based on it's having the same saucer width as the galaxy class, despite the variety of figures for that around the Web.


    [​IMG]
     
  2. JNG

    JNG Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command

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  3. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    Good one. Okay. So Mike Okuda, Rick Sternbach, and Doug Drexler all agree on changing the overall length of the Ambassador class to 478.5 meters, based on new measurements and calculations. I'll update that accordingly.
     
  4. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    JNG, thanks for the new addition of information.
     
  5. GodThingFormerly

    GodThingFormerly A Different Kind of Asshole

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    If I may quote Jesco von Puttkamer's German-language translation/expansion of Gene Roddenberry's ST:TMP novelization (Star Trek: Der Film, Moewig Verlag, 1980):

    "Langsam umrundeten sie das gigantische weiße Schiff: seine elegant gewölbte, 146 Meter weite, scheibenförmige Primärhülle, die geschweifte, an einen Schiffssteven erinnernde Verbindungs- „Finne“ zur langgestreckten zigarrenförmigen Sekundär- oder Maschinenhülle, und die beiden 155 Meter langen, je 31 000 Tonnen schweren Haupttriebwerksgondeln an ihren schräggestellten, 60 Meter langen Auslegern. Die Länge des gesamten Schiffes maß 305 Meter, sein Gewicht betrug 190 000 Tonnen."

    "Slowly they circled the huge white ship: the elegantly arched 146 meter wide disc-shaped primary hull, the curved, prow-like "fin" connecting it to the cigar-shaped secondary or engineering hull, and the two 155 meter, 31,000 ton main engine nacelles mounted on their sloping 60 meter long pylons. The entire length of the ship measures 305 meters, its weight 190,000 tons." (*)

    Take from that what you will. :)

    TGT

    * Any native German speakers passing through this thread are, of course, more than welcome to correct my undoubtedly clunky translation.
     
  6. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ I've really got to get that German translation by JvP.

    And then have endless headaches trying to figure out what it says.
     
  7. DaveyNY

    DaveyNY Commodore Commodore

    Are we really gonna quibble over 2/10ths of a meter? :devil:

    And a mere 20,000 metric tons?

    >snicker<
     
  8. GodThingFormerly

    GodThingFormerly A Different Kind of Asshole

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    Just make absolutely certain that you get the 1980 "Playboy Film" edition (which includes a foreward by von Puttkamer) and not the 1992 Heyne edition which was translated by Andreas Brandhorst.

    If I may recommend this book and a good dictionary, you should be able to get a sufficiently strong grasp of the language within, say, three months if you devote about 30 minutes a day to the exercises. After that you can also read the unadulterated version of JvP's The 23rd Century: A Vision for Star Trek reprinted as Chapter 30 in his Der erste Tag der neuen Welt (Umschau Verlag, 1981). ;)

    TGT
     
  9. aridas sofia

    aridas sofia Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I fortunately have a minimal grasp (you pick that up if you spend any time at all in Jutland) -- enough to not totally flounder when I've been in Germany. But as I'm sure you have discovered, it's one thing to have any ability to understand what you hear, and another to be able to read (and another thing yet again to be able to speak or write).
     
  10. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    I thought 240,000 metric tons for the TOS Enterprise was reasonable, based on its volume. I guess that's why I'm still squeamish about 190,000. Maybe I should invest in a model and measuring tank.

    Anyway, here's one more:

    [​IMG]
     
  11. GodThingFormerly

    GodThingFormerly A Different Kind of Asshole

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    I don't see any reason for squeamishness. After all, it's not like the densities of "duranium" and "tritanium" have ever been stated on (or off) screen.

    Nice, but I why would a fission-energized interplanetary transfer vehicle require solar photovoltaic arrays? Considering their extremely small surface area and placement near the engine pod I think it is somewhat more likely that Matt Jefferies intended those things to function as the radiator component of the DY-100's thermal control subsystem.

    TGT
     
  12. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe so. They are certainly small in relation to the power requirements. The Jackill blueprints label them as solar panels. So do the Gilso schematics, here:

    http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/blueprints/gilso/botanybay-04.jpg

    This one calls them reactor cooling vents, though, but shows solar arrays on the midship winglike portions of the hull:

    http://tatooine.fortunecity.com/herbert/305/dy100.htm

    But your suggestion seems logical to me.
     
  13. Rick Sternbach

    Rick Sternbach Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We don't all agree on changing the length of the Ent-C to 478.5 meters. Mike wants to leave it where it is, and I don't think Doug has expressed an opinion. Gary Kerr and I discussed the model and how my original blueprints got enlarged, probably by the VFX office, before they got to Greg Jein. Gary and I now maintain that the model still represents a ship that is 478.5 meters in length, and that the model is a different scale from the four foot Ent-D. And that's the breaking starship news up to the moment.

    Rick
    www.spacemodelsystems.com
     
  14. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    Fair enough.

    Here's the quote from the article JNG linked above, from the Drex Files, which includes some beautiful photos of the fliming model, and some of Rick's design drawings.

    From that, I thought there was consensus.

    Thanks for the clarification, Rick.

    Anyway, if it is 478.5, then I guess it comes out like this:

    Ambassador class
    Length: 478.5 M
    Beam: 292.92 M
    Height: 116:44 M
    Mass: 2,787,00 M.T.
     
  15. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    That explanation sounded good to me.

    Not as acrimonious as the 120m vs 170m Defiant arguments used to be, but...

    Did you change the Ambassador MSD to fit, LCARS 24?
     
  16. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    The deck layout is still okay with those dimensions. I just have to downsize the shuttles a tad, keeping in mind 2.8 meters in height for the class 8. That's easy enough.

    At the moment I'm torturing over the layout and details of a Peregrine MSD, with a not a lot out there to go on other than exterior clues.
     
  17. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    I do not envy you that task, my friend. There's almost no information on that class at all to go on.
     
  18. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Regarding the Nebula, how did you arrive at 444m long x 464m wide x 133m draft, and 4.7 million tons? Starship Spotter gives 465m long x 467.1m wide x 140.5m draft, and 3.309 million tons. Ex Astris gives 440m long for the triangular pod-version, and 465m for the AWACS pod-version. I have seen statistics giving a 318m width for the Nebula, but that's incompatible with a Galaxy saucer.
     
  19. Bill Morris

    Bill Morris Commodore Commodore

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    The dimensions for the Nebula are based on its having the same saucer width as the Galaxy class and taking measurements from that there. The Peregrine about done and has its own thread here in Trek Tech.
     
  20. JNG

    JNG Chief of Staff, Starfleet Command

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    If the density of a Nebula-class ship was the same as that of a Galaxy-class ship, then her mass would be a little over 3,800,000 tons. I think she is slightly more dense than that, and suggest 4,000,000 metric tons as my favorite kind of nice and round number: the justifiable kind.

    That's working off 5,000,000 tons for the Galaxy, which I believe Andrew Probert intended and shows up on the Ed Whitefire blueprints and so forth. If anyone wants to work to justify the 4.5 million figure in DS9 TM (as if its other mass figures weren't goofy enough to remove all temptation to do so), there's a paragraph right above it about launching Galaxy-class ships with lots of their interior volume empty that works great.