Vengeance Weapons (Spoilers, maybe)

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Crazy Eddie, Jun 13, 2013.

  1. Killerprise

    Killerprise Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    The ball turrents on the saucer are phasers and the torpedo room scene much like the shuttlebay scene is subject to extreme amounts of doubt. The broadside launchers were soley for the special torpedoes, Scotty bitched about the retrofits to the Enterprise. Retrofits = side launchers. This new Enterprise is not remotely as advanced as the original ship. This Enterprise has a lot of 20th century technology in it. The warp drive system on this Enterprise thus far has not been explained in any way shape or form thus allowing the ship to jump to light speed without anyone wondering how it does that. Unlike the original which had technical schematics showing how the warp drive worked. Also the impulse engines and RCS thrusters are completely independent from the warp drive, they do not need the warp core to be online to function which puts the falling Enterprise scene into doubt as well. The small torpedoes shown in the picture are small because the neck of the ship is loaded with escape pods. The Refit Enterprise had a torpedo magazine built into the neck.

    http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcar...enterprise-phase-2-refit-program-sheet-11.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2013
  2. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's a dizzying number of things in this post you are stating as fact that you cannot possibly know for sure and are basing purely on your interpretation of second-hand fan speculation:
    A strong possibility, but in Alan Dean Foster's novelization (which is based on the script) Scotty implies those were the modifications HE made in his own spare time (i.e. he is really angry with Kirk for forcing him to resign after all the work he's put into the Enterprise).

    You mean it has things like removable data storage based on magnetic tape, CRT displays, Pushbutton interfaces, solid-state electronics, incandescent bulbs, Styrofoam cups?

    You're right, we'd never see any of those things on the original Enterprise.:vulcan:

    No it didn't. Hell, to this day we're not even sure where the original ship's engine room is.

    Your totally baseless assertion seems to be incorrect, considering this is exactly what happened in STID.

    And if this was the refit Enterprise -- and not a totally different vessel almost six times its volume -- that would be a good point.

    Ironically, the image you linked to is NOT the refit Enterprise, but fanart interpretation of the aborted Phase-II Enterprise on which the TMP refit was (mostly) based. So you are not actually comparing the new ship to a totally different design it has nothing whatsoever in common with; you're comparing the new ship to a speculative interpretation of a ship that was never actually built.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2013
  3. Killerprise

    Killerprise Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I know more about the Enterprise than you do or ever will. It may be a fan blueprint but it's still very accurate. I can always find an official one, you'll probably have something to say about that too. The new ship is design with no technical blueprints to back up where the various locations are shown. Did it really take you several days to come up with this response? :guffaw:
     
  4. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Why? Because you don't like it?
    No it didn't, it wasn't until long after the series had finished when technical manuals started to appear. Warp drive was never explained in any kind of detail in he show.

    And I'd like to see the 20th century version of the glass in the brig, I must have missed that.
    You might want to re-watch "The Naked Time", where the same thing happens.
    This fan-made diagram carries more weight than the canon movie? LOL, okay...
    Technical blueprints are non-canon. And the ones you liked to aren't even for any version of the Enterprise that appeared on-screen.

    You don't need blueprints to tell you where everything on the new Enterprise is, all you need are your eyes. But hey, I'm talking to the guy who thinks the shuttlebay "doesn't count" and gigantic engineering sections would somehow fit into a hull that's only 30 meters wide... :rommie:
     
  5. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There IS no official one.
     
  6. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    And all "official" ones of the TOS Enterprise contradict each other or don't fully match up to the ship shown on screen anyway.

    They're all included in written material outside of the shown, never onscreen, so no fully official plans of ship exist outside of the cutaway in "In a Mirror Darkly", which has no annotations.
     
  7. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    Well, the "warp tunnel" tends to distort the picture, so maybe it was just a visual thing.
     
  8. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...Basically, the classic JJ Abrams camera shake, now applied to the visual effects as well.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  9. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    Actually looking at my picture compared to the others, the curved vapour trails seem to come after the beam has hit, so it may be super heated warp exhaust, created by the phaser passing through it.
     
  10. Kruezerman

    Kruezerman Commodore Commodore

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    I mean I liked it. The phasers seemed more like lightning bolts that had a huge amount of power. They look like a weapon.
     
  11. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's easier to see in slow motion, though; the beam itself is following a curved path prior to impact. More importantly, the effect is also noticeable AFTER the ship has dropped out of warp.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    It's Wanted in space!
     
  13. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm, I wonder if some of that new 'advanced' weaponry is something like a laser painter, dotting the hull with something we can't see polarising a spot in it, the phaser arcing between the two. A lightning bolt of a sort as someone else suggested.
     
  14. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ That would be a FANTASTIC explanation for how phasers really work, considering how rarely phasers actually miss their target.
     
  15. Colonel Midnight

    Colonel Midnight Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Wouldn't that basically imply that phasers are subluminal, speed-wise? Otherwise the phaser "bolt" would pretty much arrive at the same time as the pointer, so I don't think it would be all that beneficial.

    Then again, I may be wrong -- dang relativity!! :) :p

    Was it mentioned up-thread that this (supposed) arcing could be artifacts from the 3D conversion process? Even in 2D (best way to see STID, IMO), you could tell where there was a "3D type" scene (like the "warp trails", etc.), as it would skew things visually.

    Cheers,
    -CM-
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    A "lightning bolt" spanning the distance between two "special" points in space, the emitter and the somehow tagged destination, would also explain why phasers always take the same amount of time to reach their target, regardless of the distance to the target. If the target is two meters away, it takes three frames of film to get there; if the target is twenty thousand kilometers away, it takes three frames of film. Perhaps phaser beams are basically just destructive transporter beams that go from A to B instantaneously but waste a standard amount of time "emerging" thereafter, only they are so powerful that they leak light across the "channel" created between A and B, whereas transporter beams are invisible in their "channels".

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Absolutely. Which they obviously are, as we've seen in Trek for the past 30 years now. Phaser beams seem to

    They would follow the same path either way; 2D images become 3D only by slightly offsetting the image a couple of degrees where the filter on the opposite eye will see it in a slightly different position.
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Phasers are neither sub- or superluminal, but rather have variable speed. Hand phaser beams move very slowly; starship phaser beams move very fast, and often at high warp (because they can explicitly reach targets at warp). It's just a matter of scale: a beam that appears to move at a certain speed is fast or slow depending on the distance it covers.

    Nothing wrong with that, really. It's actually quite understandable that starship-fired beams would be faster, as there is more power behind them than behind sidearm beams...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. Crazy Eddie

    Crazy Eddie Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But then the relative velocities between those two ships are quite a bit lower and the phaser beam itself isn't moving all that fast with respect to the ship that fires it or the ship it hits.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Not in cases where only one of the ships is at warp - say, "Journey to Babel" or "Elaan of Troyius". Plus we have beams going from Mars to Earth in no time flat in ENT, with otherwise phaserlike capabilities...

    Timo Saloniemi