V

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Da'an, Jul 16, 2009.

  1. Da'an

    Da'an Commander Red Shirt

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    Loyal to whom? The "others"? Ben? Jack? Herself?

    The woman who ambushed and Buffy-kicked Kate into a pulp then pretend-handcuffed herself to Kate to manipulate and con everyone into trusting her?

    I'll never believe Juliet is one of the "good guys". She'll betray everyone when it's most convenient for her to do so.
     
  2. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Come now, there was absolutely no need for an ad hominem attack about my understanding of science. It undermines rational discourse.

    Besides, you weren't talking about laws of science, you were making assumptions about civilizations. Civilizations, and technological progressions within societies for that matter, don't follow any "laws" which would equate to laws of nature or science. Psychohistory, as compelling an idea as it may be, is not a science ... yet.

    I'm not debating the laws of nature or science, nor am I questioning scientific observations. My statement about conjecture, once again, applied to your comments about what civilizations might do with their technology. For example, the following are all conjecture:


    • "If I were a member of a civilization advanced enough to traverse interstellar distances, I'd either use robots or I'd use a replicator-type technology to extract hydrogen and oxygen from materials around me and create water"
    • "Anyone that advanced should be able to synthesize food or water and use robotic labor, and they'd have to have an incredibly robust and efficient industry that would easily outperform our entire planet's industrial output by a factor of thousands" is conjecture.
    • "it's unlikely that the life forms of one planet could gain nourishment from those of another planet; at best it would be like junk food, not very nutritious and toxic in excess."
    • The only way in which interstellar conquest makes any sense is if it's motivated purely by imperialism.
    You even use modifiers like "should" and "unlikely." That hardly makes them factual statements. The point is, much of sci-fi is conjecture. What you're doing is no different than what KJ did for V. While these ideas of yours may have more current scientific theory and observation behind it, they are still conjecture.

    What you missed, then, in my original statement -- and really the entire thrust of everything I have said -- is that it wasn't only water that brought the Visitors to earth. Water, yes. But food and furthering their imperialistic agenda. Hence the quip that "it's difficult to find good hors d'oeuvres on moons, comets or in orbits around stars."

    In any case, even an alien-invasion allegory about the Holocaust still has room for commentary about the precious natural resources of our planet -- about how aliens would be willing to exploit us for them, even though we as a planet tend to abuse them. I understand that you don't like the water angle, such is your prerogative, but you've been using phrases like "monumentally stupid" to describe it which, unfortunately, is thoroughly dismissive and, frankly, inflammatory.

    Still, I have to wonder, where do you draw the line with science fiction? Can't science fiction be improbable, simply to prove a point? Bradbury wrote about people breathing air on Mars, even when that was improbable -- yet you'd be hard pressed to find one who dismisses the Martial Chronicles because of his fuzzy sci-fi.

    Again, I commend your dedication to "getting the science right" but you contradict yourself. You claim that the use of water is a critically poor decision for V (in your words, "monumentally stupid"), and yet you also say, "I like Kenneth Johnson's V. I think it's a good story, a good allegory for the Holocaust." Clearly, sci-fi writers can still tell good stories, even if the science isn't 100% sound. Which, essentially, is my point. I agree, all else being equal, it's preferable to use a more scientifically sound construct. But it's not a fundamental requirement, either.
     
  3. FordSVT

    FordSVT Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I agree with that, I was just picking apart the idea of an invasion based on that as the primary reason. If they're just here to take our raw materials and leave, it's not logical.
     
  4. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She beat up Kate and you're complaining? That's when I started to like her! :rommie:

    If she'd beat up someone people like - Sun, say, or Hurley - then okay.
     
  5. Holoaddict

    Holoaddict Commodore Commodore

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    I must agree here. Anyone willing to give Kate a good beatdown is OK in my book.
     
  6. arch101

    arch101 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [QUOTE

    I can't say I've read any of your work but, as a career SF writer, I do hope you're spending as much time and effort on the human equation as you do on scientific research. If you do, then I may check out some of your work. :techman:[/QUOTE]

    You really MUST read The Buried Age and especially Ex Machina, both by Christopher. I guarantee you won't be disappointed, and your question about how he handles the human equation will be answered affirmatively.
     
  7. EmmanuelZorg

    EmmanuelZorg Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Was V already redone as Independence Day?
     
  8. nevermore

    nevermore Admiral Admiral

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    Will it have Michael Ironside?
     
  9. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    That looks awesome. It's also got that Taken jerk Joel (loved to hate him in that mini) and it looks like Eric Stoltz with black hair. But with Elizabeth being in I'm certainly there!
     
  10. Mallory

    Mallory Moderator Admiral

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    I loved the original miniseries and I'm looking forward to seeing just how the remake plays out.
     
  11. Mal

    Mal Commodore Commodore

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    i loved the original miniseries (actually, i even liked The Final Battle), but i have to say - this looks like some pretty generic crap.
     
  12. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I love the fact that Joel Gresch is cast as a priest and not a cop or military guy like you'd expect. By "Eric Stoltz with black hair" do you mean Scott Wolf? He's another one I'm really enthused about. (Eric Stoltz is in Caprica, if you want to see him this fall in a great role.) And I hope Alan Tudyk is a regular on the show (and that the show goes beyond just the minseries).
     
  13. Starbreaker

    Starbreaker Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm so sick and tired of reading essays in every thread... anyway... I liked the trailer and I'll be checking this out.
     
  14. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Just skip em, I always do. :D
     
  15. diankra

    diankra Commodore Commodore

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    For what it's worth, The Times (the London Times in American) reported that it was the new series that got the best response from British TV buyers at the annual sales fair last month.
    Make of that what you will: for instance, over the last few years, Pushing Daisies and Studio 60 got the same accolade, whereas no-one was interested in Heroes pre-tx, so the UK Sci-Fi channel were for once able to pick up first run of a new SF series (for one season).
     
  16. Gary Mitchell

    Gary Mitchell Admiral Admiral

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    Isn't V a midseason series and not a miniseries like the Youtube trailer says?
     
  17. Gertch

    Gertch Admiral

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    Ah, Scott Wolf, thanks Temis. I thought he was a little young looking to be Eric but still could be some kind of wonderful. Still, I'll skip him in Caprica.

    Have to agree with your thoughts about Joel character this time. He'll pull it off.
     
  18. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pushing Daisies
    and Studio 60 had esoteric premises and I can see why they were a hard sell to the general audience. But who doesn't like a good old fashioned alien invasion?

    As for it being generic crap, that's the prevailing trend for sf/f this year. :D You wanna see generic? Watch the previews for Flash Forward and Day One. At least V has a cast and characterizations that don't look like they came from the Hollywood cookie-cutter factory.

    It's a midseason minseries but if the ratings are strong, I see no reason why ABC wouldn't take the show to series. They're gonna need their next Lost for '10-11.*
     
  19. Chaos Descending

    Chaos Descending Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No. War of the Worlds was redone as Independence Day.
     
  20. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    V was redone as Earth: Final Conflict.
     

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