US retreat leaves China leading way in race to return to Moon

Discussion in 'Science and Technology' started by Alpha_Geek, Feb 3, 2010.

  1. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    A very poor one. Building a floating colony in the atmosphere of Venus would actually be more difficult than one in orbit.
     
  2. Jetfire

    Jetfire Guest

    ^
    Do we have anything in orbit around Venus??? It is closer than Mars...and I am sure some science can be had with an orbiter.

    The same floating colony idea goes for Neptune & Uranus as well.
     
  3. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    ^There was a climate orbiter/radar mapper at one time. Not sure it's still there.
     
  4. Mark de Vries

    Mark de Vries Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    Groningen, the Netherlands
    ESA's Venus Express is orbiting the planet, NASA's MESSENGER did two fly-bys en route to Mercury. ESA, NASA, JAXA and Roscosmos are all planning future unmanned missions to Venus. Two of these plans include landers: the American Venus In-Situ Explorer and the Russian Venera-D.

    But that's all not even remotely close to floating atmospheric colonies, of course.
     
  5. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2005
    Location:
    the Frozen Wastes
    I would have thought below surface habitats were more realistic, where you don't have the corrosive atmosphere to battle constantly. There's so much heat, power would never be a problem and there's so much water in the atmosphere, water would never be a problem either.
     
  6. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2008
    Location:
    A Long Time Ago...
    ^What water? There's virtually no water in Venus's atmosphere.

    Surviving long enough on the surface to dig your subterranean habitat would pretty much preclude the idea.

    Yes, There's so much heat, you would be using most of your power to keep things cool. 900 degrees Fahrenheit is a bitch.
     
  7. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    Floating habitats would actually be fairly practical, if you could prevent them from being torn apart by storm winds and turbulence.
     
  8. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    China moon probe launch a success

    http://blogs.nature.com/news/thegreatbeyond/2010/10/china_moon_probe_launch_a_succ.html
    - October 01, 2010Chinese media are reporting on the successful launch of Chang’e 2, an unmanned moon probe that is playing a key role in the country’s effort to scale up its lunar exploration program.Chang’e 2 will take five days to reach a 100 km lunar polar orbit. It is carrying a laser altimeter, a CCD camera, and an impactor that will be dropped from the probe onto the moon's surface at a prospective landing site for a future lander.This week on Spacedaily.com, space analyst Morris Jones questioned why China chose to launch Chang’e 2 on a more powerful Long March 3C rocket instead of the Long March 3A used to carry Chang’e 1. Yong-Chun Zheng of the National Astronomical Observatories in Beijing tells Nature that the choice was made because the Long March 3C would get the probe to the Moon more quickly, in five days instead of 12. A key point seems also to be the desire to scale up the China National Space Administration’s capabilities in preparation for the expected launch of a moon lander in 2013. “The key technology about soft landing on the Moon will be tested in the CE-2 mission. The success of CE-2 will provide important technical basis for the successful implementation of China's future lunar exploration,” says Zheng in a message on the Lunar-L listserv
     
  9. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Things would have been so much cooler if Venus and Mars had turned out to be habitable, Earth-like planets with plenty of water and breathable atmospheres. Damn you, universe!
     
  10. CuttingEdge100

    CuttingEdge100 Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2005
    I'm worried more about this being simply an excuse by the Chinese for weaponizing space. I'm very leery of anybody who wants to do this, as the ability to control the space around a planet results in the capability to control the whole planet.

    I don't trust any one government with that kind of power.
     
  11. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    China's Chang'e 3 landing on the Moon

    [ yt ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCrBY51NkqM[ /yt ]

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCrBY51NkqM[/yt]
     
  12. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2004
    Location:
    Mannheim, Germany
    The Russians and the Americans didn't so why worry about China?

    It's not like they can do it in secret so even if they tried international pressure would prevent them from doing that. Even China's legendary "Fuck you world!" attitude wouldn't help them there and why would they? They don't have world domination fantasies like the US.. they are content with being the King of Asia and the world's manufacturing centre which gives them huge power.. why risk it all by being overly militaristic?

    Economy is the real power and that's what China is doing (very well).
     
  13. EmoBorg

    EmoBorg Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2012
    Location:
    in the 10 dimensions of reality
    C'mon guys don't lose hope. The Soviets launched the first satellite (sputnik), launched the first living mammal into orbit (Laika) and then the first human into space (Gagarin). They had the first space walk (Leonov) and moon exploration (luna 2) and the first space station (salyut 1). We caught up with them in the end and surpassed them.

    The US still remains the first and only nation to have humans land on the moon. Twelve Americans have walked on the moon. other countries have zero people walking on the moon. Even if the PRC sends taikonauts to the moon, it will take them several manned moon missions to catch up with the USA.
     
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2013
  14. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Location:
    At star's end.
    That was in the '60, EmoBorg. Ancient history. Feel good verbiage.
    Nowadays, USA cannot put a rover on the moon in less than 20 years.
     
  15. TheMasterOfOrion

    TheMasterOfOrion Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2006
    more info
    [ yt ][ /yt ]

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_U5S0fK3EY[/yt]

    and

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QDnFsNTkRM[/yt]
     
  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    That's probably because we're too busy putting all kinds of rovers on Mars, the last one of which was as big as a car and was placed there by a skycrane that was never used before and could have malfunctioned in a million different ways, and yet it was completely successful.
     
  17. Brolan

    Brolan Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2002
    Location:
    With the French nation
    Screw the Moon. That's so last century. If the Chinese want to be the second country to land a man there, and visit the US flags that have been there nearly half a century, let them have their fun.
     
  18. Edit_XYZ

    Edit_XYZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2011
    Location:
    At star's end.
    USA put men on the moon ~50 years ago and now, it can't put a rover on the moon because of an already completed transport and landing on Mars (which will have no follow-up)?
    No. It cannot put a rover on the moon because it does not have the necessary hardware and it needs 20 years to create it. Because, after said lunar landings, it not only stopped going forward, it went in full reverse.
    Nowadays, in space related matters, USA is a has been, limited to orbital space, comforting itself with memories of its golden age.
     
  19. BigJake

    BigJake Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2013
    Location:
    No matter where you go, there you are.
    I think this is quite fantastic, really. If the Chinese program leads to some really extensive lunar exploration, more power to it. The Sixties lunar landings were awesome technical achievements, especially given the technology of the time, but they were really little more than publicity stunts. Anything that leads to greater exploration and understanding is to the good.

    And if it prompts the US to try reinvesting in NASA, so much the better. The US and China are -- for all the rivalry under the surface -- already partner-powers economically in a way the US and the Soviets never were, so the possibilities for fruitful international collaboration are there if someone decides to take them.
     
  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    What does one mission have to do with the other? NASA hasn't sent a rover to the moon because they have no interest in doing so, not because it takes 20 years (according to you) to do so. Mars is what NASA is more interested in now, not the moon. So there will definitely be a follow up.

    Again, where are you getting this 20 year figure from? Did it take 20 years to build Curiosity? No. Did it take 20 years to build Spirit and Opportunity? No. And any of those rovers could have been sent to the moon had NASA been so inclined, and with a much easier set of circumstances. But they went to Mars instead for the reasons above.

    So you consider the exploration of Mercury, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto and all their subsequent moons going "in full reverse" from exploration of the moon?

    I didn't realize that the Russians, Europeans, Japanese, Chinese and Indians have sent men beyond orbital space while Americans have just been limited to it. Oh, wait a minute...they haven't.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2013