Unpopular Trek Opinions — What Are Yours?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by M, Mar 22, 2010.

  1. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Roddenberry's idea is very simple; Humans had come together, and had gotten over our petty little quarks of racism/sexism ect ect ect. I am not a big fan of Roddenberry's, but it is his creation. If the writers couldn't write around that simple little rule (and on DS9 they did find ways) then they shouldn't write for Star Trek.

    However, I do understand that there are those who do not like that aspect of GR's creation; but he did create it. If a certain writer doesn't like it, and cant work around it, then go write for Marvel comics or something. But I think GR's idealistic (thats what it is) view of humanity should be respected.

    It can't be explained any simpler than that.

    Rob
     
  2. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Vorik?! You like Vorik, of all the Vulcans? :wtf: :eek: :vulcan:

    I think we've found another really unpopular opinion. :lol: If I may ask... why? What's so great about Vorik? It really puzzles me that someone could actually prefer him to Spock. :wtf:
     
  3. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if you want an extreme in the other direction, there's always Ron Moore's BSG where he positied....actually forced down our throats (til it came out our ass) that humanity was an evil bunch that isn't worth saving.
     
  4. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ Except that it wasn't. And claiming that just shows that 1) you didn't watch the show, 2) didn't pay attention, or 3) was always prejudiced against it and trying to read everything in it that way.

    I really wonder how you would explain the purpose of characters like Helo is, or Lee with his idealism, what's the purpose of Adama backing down from assassinating Cain - and even Cain backing down from assassinating Cain, or Roslin deciding not to let Baltar die, or why there was so much attention paid to the friendship between Adama and Tigh, or his fatherly relationships with his crew (Starbuck, Athena), the Cylon-Human romances like Helo/Athena, etc.
     
  5. Penta

    Penta Commander Red Shirt

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    But when it comes to Trek, I don't want either extreme. I don't mind optimism...I just mind when the optimism is so extreme. Because then it stops being optimism and starts being delusional. It stops being science-fiction and moves into space fantasy.

    And...RobertScorpio...

    Why? GR's been dead for (almost) 20 years. Trek was never entirely his, anyway. No TV series ever is one person's. He only gets creator credit for all the spinoffs because of WGA rules anyway, as I understand it.

    What makes his revisionism (and that's frankly what it is - the differences in tone between TOS and TNG are stunning; he even admitted it was revisionist, if I recall correctly) Holy Writ?

    Because it's Gene Roddenberry? Not even remotely an answer! Never mind the way it puts someone very, very flawed on a sort of pedestal, what makes him different from every other TV producer?

    If Star Trek is anybody's, I'd argue it's the fans' creature by now; you can't even call it Paramount's or Viacom's, really, given that the IP's been split up like a Solomonic baby and doesn't really have one entire owner.

    The way I see it, TNG's producers and writers should have sat down and explained to Roddenberry (who was not, I've understood, particularly involved, especially after season 2 or so), very diplomatically and politely, that Trek could not both accommodate his oft-changing views and be a viable property in the long run. That they had a fiduciary duty to the folks who actually owned Trek (Paramount, at the time) to focus on it being a viable property...And that would mean that the obvious Writer on Board stuff (see: The stuff I've mentioned) had to go byebye.

    I mean, all due respect to the guy, but that's the thing. He was not clever about it, it didn't make for good TV...It wasn't even very subtle. It was beating-you-over-the-head unsubtle, it leaves massive holes in the setting, and it kills so much drama for so many plots.
     
  6. Diddle

    Diddle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Haha, well it's hard to explain, I almost always prefer underrated characters/random guest stars over the main characters of any show I watch. (My favorite TOS character is Trelane. Honestly) With underrated characters like Barclay, or guest stars like Corbin Bernsen (played the Blond Q on Deja Q) you have those small scenes that are pretty awesome and give that taste of wanting more and that's great. You have then the novels and comics that sometimes exploit characters like them making them even more interesting!

    But then you have a main character like Spock that's in every episode, every everything doing the exact same thing over and over, sometimes contradicting themselves each episode and it gets boring, you know, especially on long term series like the Star Trek franchise. Even if the character is great, they are so overused and people get so hyped about them highlighting them over other characters that's just annoying.

    And, well, Vorik was fun and kind of a douche, I always loved scenes with him, and scenes with Spock and the other Vulcans I remember right now were almost always so boring. I never understood what was so great about them...

    Also, yesterday I remembered that I liked Solok as well, great character.
     
  7. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I watched it from beginning to end just recently. And no, I'm not prejudiced against it. But like it or not, both BSG and TNG showed two sides to humanity, and both took their views to extremes.
     
  8. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Vice Admiral Admiral

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    TOS
    -TOS is my least favorite series.
    -I think Kirk is most often simply an arrogant jerk.
    -I think TOS Klingons are boring compared to the TNG-era ones.
    -Trek got better after Gene Roddenberry was out of the picture (I guess this applies to TNG as well).
    -We needed more aliens on the Enterprise, even if they had ridiculous looking make-up (it's called suspension of disbelief).

    TNG
    -I love Masks.
    -I think The Inner Light is highly, highly over-rated.
    -I think Yesterday's Enterprise is highly over-rated.
    -I hate Troi.
    -Q wasn't used enough.

    DS9
    -I loved what they did with Dukat in the final two seasons.
    -I don't care for Far Beyond the Stars.
    -I think Section 31 is necessary for the Federation and should exist.
    -I hate Jadiza Dax.
    -I adore Ezri Dax.

    VOY
    -I don't think the Borg were over-used.
    -I liked the Borg kids.
    -I liked Endgame.
    -I don't think Seven of Nine was over-used.
    -I don't think Treshold is the worst episode of the series (that would be The Fight).

    ENT
    -I love all of Enterprise (except for that abomination of a finale).
    -I don't mind the theme song.
    -I like Archer.
    -I think Jolene Blalock is a decent actress.
    -I don't think having the Borg in the show goes against the established continuity.

    MOVIES
    -I think Robin Curtis was much, much better than Kirstie Alley.
    -I love how the added scenes in the Director's Cut of The Undiscovered Country darken the picture considerably.
    -I hate the Enterprise-E.
    -I consider Insurrection, but not The Final Frontier, to be apocryphal.
    -I absolutely LOATHE Star Trek XI.

    GENERAL
    -I think Andorians and Tellarites should have been featured heavily in all five series.
    -I think the female cast members are sexier when they don't wear catsuits (though I'm not complaining about the catsuits either.)
    -Most continuity errors can be explained if you try to figure out explanations yourself.
    -I think Star Trek is at its worst whenever it's about "boldly going where no one has gone before," and at its best when it's about universe building.
    -I'm glad that the later Trek shows got rid of the dewey-eyed optimism of TOS and early TNG.
     
  9. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    Okay..my big list..


    TOS

    1. I think TOS is the best series.
    2. I think Kirk was the most heroic of ALL the Star Trek Captains.
    3. I think the TOS Klingons were far better than the biker versions of TNG era.
    4. GR is overated, but the show went off course in season 3
    5. We didn't need more aliens on TOS, just shorter skirts on the women.

    TNG
    1. I think Picard is over-rated and over used.
    2. I cant stand either TROI or YAR.
    3. I think TNG is far too Politically correct, and suffers from it in later viewings.
    4. Women, the cute ones, should have been in skirts.
    5. Q was over used.
    6. Who Watches the Watchers was great.
    7. Darmok is the epitomy of what is wrong with TNG

    DS9.
    1. This is the best TREK series and has no faults worth going into.

    Voyager.
    1. The Borg were not only over used, they were ruined.
    2. I hated the Borg kids (they contributed to ruining the borg)
    3. Chakotay wasn't used properly.
    4. Tuvok was an awful Vulcan.

    Enterprise.
    1. I didn't like the dog.
    2. I didn't like the captain.
    3. Coto's contribution was over-rated.
    4. The Andorian make up was awful.
    5. the CGI aliens were awful as well.
    6. I did like the theme song (but prefer the Rod Stewart version)


    Movies
    I think STAR TREK V is a very good TREK movie
    I think First Contact isn't that good.
    I think GENERATIONS is the best TNG movie, by far.


    In General
    I used to crap all over GR for his positive look on humanity...but now, I have come around to the other side and totally support it. It was his show, he created it, and TOS is, to this day, the TREK that defines the franchise.

    Rob
     
  10. tvih

    tvih Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    This. Enterprise's opening sequence is the best of all the Treks by far. It's both fitting and inspirational. I honestly don't understand people dissing the song, in many cases it seems to be simply disliking it from being different from the other shows, which makes no sense. But, each to their own! :)

    Also, Voyager being my favorite series and Janeway my favorite Captain probably aren't very popular opinions.

    There's plenty more I reckon... but that'll do for now :bolian:
     
  11. RobertScorpio

    RobertScorpio Pariah

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    ^^ but I still think THE CALLING's song, which they used in promos before the show started, would have been even better..

    Rob
     
  12. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't think so. I can assure you that I hate it for just one reason: because it sucks. I would applaud them for doing something different with the credits, if they had used a good song, or at least a decent one. The song is cheesy and the singer is horrible, it's one of those songs I literally cannot bear to listen. It sounds like... Michael Bolton, or one of those awful sweet metal bands of the 1980s. I press the mute button or fast forward the credits every time I watch ENT... except if I am watching In A Mirror, Darkly. Now those credits I could watch and listen several times in a row. :bolian:

    But, as you said, to each their own.
     
  13. Joeman

    Joeman Captain Captain

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    If this is an unpopular opinion, the people here are crazier than I thought. I only got to go once, but I thought I had died and gone to heaven. The bar was also my favorite.
     
  14. Luther Sloan

    Luther Sloan Captain Captain

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    Location:
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    TOS

    1. The TOS sets are not as cheesy as you think.
    2. Kirk was the best Captain. No discussion. No debate. It is truth.
    3. I equally like both the TOS and TNG era Klingons.
    4. GR (Gene) deserves to be overated. And Season 3 was awesome.
    5. There should be a sexy Women's TOS short skirt convention put on at least once a year.

    TNG

    1. I think Picard should have shaved his head from day one.
    2. I cant stand how everyone get's along so perfectly with each other.
    3. TNG is modern Trek for people who can't follow a lengthy narrative.
    4. They needed sexier women within the cast of TNG.
    5. Q was too powerful.
    6. Chain of Command Parts 1 and 2 are the best TNG episodes.
    7. "All Good Things" was... not all that good. In fact, it sucked.

    DS9.

    1. Sisko shouldn't have died and no one should have left the station.
    2. Women on DS9 were hotter because of the quality of the series.
    3. Deep Space Nine should be force-ably viewed within every house hold by the government. Whoever doesn't comply into watching this TV show should end up with some serious fines.

    Voyager.

    1. The Borg were hot. Especially Seven of Nine.
    2. I hated the Borg kids
    3. Chakotay was back ground decoration.
    4. Tuvok should have killed Neelix.

    Enterprise

    1. I wish there was an entire season dedicated towards Porthos.
    2. I despised the entire crew of the NX-01 Enterprise.
    3. B & B ruined Star Trek.
    4. Star Trek Canon is more important than you think.
    5. The theme song made my skin crawl it was so bad.
    6. Previous Star Trek episodes shouldn't be re-interpreted to fit Star Trek Enterprise's mistakes.

    Movies

    1. The only good Star Trek movies are... 1, 2, 4, 6, 8, and 11.
    2. TNG crew should have been trapped within the past in First Contact.
    3. Search for Spock, Final Frontier. Generations, Insurrection, and Nemesis should be locked in a vault and forgotten.


    In General

    Star Trek is not just a TV show.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  15. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Some of mine:

    -I liked Voyager way more than I liked Star Trek

    -For the Most Part, Rick Berman and Brannon Braga were great for Star Trek.

    -I like Braga because he's Honest. He can freely admit when he made a mistake

    -City on the Edge of Forever is alright, but my favorite episode, and the one deserving of "classic" Status is Devil in the Dark

    -I thought a lot of DS9's The Final Chapter was terrible, mainly the Dukat/Winn Parts

    -I wish DS9 had integrated a lot of Seasons 1-3 when they brought on the Dominion. I really enjoyed a lot of the Bajor plot lines and the fact that no decision was made to have them join the federation or not was kind of disappointing

    -Neelix was ok. There were many episodes where I actually liked him

    -I hate the legendary status of Kirk. He's just a captain, not a god. Sisko's the god. ;) Anyway, seriously, I am really irked when I watch Trials and Tribble-ations (Great episode) and they put Kirk on a pedestal so high it's crazy.

    -DS9 Season 2 was awesome, my third favorite season behind Seasons 5 and 4.

    -TWOK is overrated

    -The Final Frontier is a great movie, and the only one to really get the friendship between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy accurate to the series

    -Soren was an awesome villian. I actually find Generations one of the most quotable Trek films "Time is like a predator. It's Stalking you". Awesome stuff
     
  16. Diddle

    Diddle Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thank you, I forgot about that one.
     
  17. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Of course it's not. It's a franchise that includes 6 TV shows, 11 movies, and lots of books and comics. :)

    I think the hatred of Dukat/Winn/Pah-wraiths storyline is the popular opinion - though most people do not extend it to the Final Chapter as a whole. (This is my stance, anyway.)

    Nah, why should everyone join the Federation? Well, Bajor will probably eventually do it, but there's no need to make "OMG THEY'VE JOINED THE FEDERATION, NOW THEY'RE COMPLETE AND HAPPY!" the ending of the show. It would have probably been cheesy.

    I hear you. I love season 2, too. :bolian:

    You've lost me here. :vulcan:
     
  18. thew40

    thew40 Commander Red Shirt

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    - I'm fine with the way Kirk died in "Generations." It wasn't perfect, but I was fine with it.

    - I think Worf is one of the most interesting characters in all Trek (I'm not sure if this is unpopular or not)

    - I find Kirk extremely arrogant. I hated the way he would just topple computer-gods and then just leave. While the character of Kirk is interesting, this aspect of him is distasteful.

    - The Temporal Cold was a pretty cool story idea that simply wasn't handled well.

    - I loved the ending of "Sacriface of Angels" and I enjoyed Dukat's storyarc after he went crazy

    - I don't think Troi is very attractive
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Luther I can easily see a sexy short skirt contest on stage at a convention, might be a very workable idea.
    Can be used to replace filking.

    ----------------------

    TMP. The fatal transporter accident should have involved Carol and David.

    TWOK. Instead of talking in the turbo-lift, Kirk and Saavik should have had their little talk in a shower while having sex. (Maybe with some bondage.)

    TSFS. At the begining of the movie, the Enterprise mistakenly rams into the space dock, explosively decompressing the bar with Janice Rand. The rest of the movie is Janice's wake, where the crew, through a series of drunken flash backs, relate how at one time or another they each nailed her.

    ENT. The opening song for Enterprise should have been "Rock You Like a Hurricane" by the German band the Scorpions.

    TNG. At the end of the episode Pen Pals Data should have been demoted to lieutenant for violating the prime directive, two seasons later he could be promoted back to Lt. Commander.
     
  20. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Here is a great suggestion for an alternate ENT theme song - but one that would only work for the Mirror Universe episodes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PccZebZKF9E :bolian:

    As to the regular ones - maybe the theme song have been tolerable if they had just found a better singer? Hmmm, who could it be? Who is a Trek fan in the world of music?

    Iggy Pop was on DS9, maybe they could have asked him to sing it :p though I can't imagine him singing "Faith of the Heart"... maybe something like:

    So I take a little bad with the good
    It ain't just black and white
    You've got to deal with the real
    Oh, living on the edge of the... quadrant
    *

    *Maybe this could have been the DS9 theme song... ;) :rommie:
     

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