Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by M, Mar 22, 2010.
That sounds like sarcasm, but it seems a lot of people actually think TOS looks good.
I don't like Kirk all that much and I abhor William Shatner
I'd much rather watch TFF than ST09
I think Data was mostly annoying
I still haven't managed to get interested enough in DS9 to see all the episodes
You're one to talk!
I can't say I've encountered many people who think TOS looks "good" from a purely technical standpoint. The vast majority of people (on this BBS or elsewhere) that I've talked to about TOS - no matter how much they like the show - acknowledge that the era in which it was made holds it back in terms of visuals.
That said, what I HAVE seen tons of is the idea that TOS had good (or, among Trek shows, the best) aesthetics. That disregarding the quality of film and of special effects, the overall look of TOS, stylistically - uniforms, ships, control panels, weapons, etc - was great. Which I really don't get; I find TOS' look goofy and ridiculous, myself. Buuuut, if I'm being fair, that's really a matter of personal preference. There's no objectivity to disliking (or liking) the aesthetics.
Star Trek V and Star Trek Generations are great movies.
The first season of TNG is mostly great.
Plato's Stepchildren is one of season three's best episodes.
I know what a gimmick the holodeck episodes are, but I love just about every one of them.
I'd like to address what some have said about TOS.
For those of us who were there way back in ancient times... Star Trek was very advanced looking for its time. Yes, today it looks silly to many, but back then no one had created a ship like Enterprise for television. No one had an inkling of how the future would really look, but they tried, and in the 1960s TOS took us where no one had ever gone before.
Many of the inventions we now take for granted were inspired by those who saw TOS and said, "I think that would work" and made it happen. Cell phones were inspired by communicators, as well as other inventions.
A little knowledge of history may help to put things in perspective.
Sector 7, climbing down from soapbox
It's a relief to know that there are so many people who don't care much for Kirk.
I think that opinion is quite widespread. I've never met anyone who prefers Trek movies to the shows.
Hm, is that really an unpopular opinion among the people who read Trek books?
Now, the majority of Trek fans does not, but that's another matter.
Isn't that the majority opinion? I doubt that many people argue either of the two extremes... it's just that those who do tend to stand out, and feel the need to argue it in the first place (as is usual with extreme viewpoints).
If by that you mean that it peaked in season 5, then it's not such an unpopular opinion. Though I'd say it peaked in season 5 + the first 6 episodes of season 6. The rest of S6 was mostly good and occasionally great, but didn't have the same intensity. But I also think that DS9 was great since "Duet".
I should have also mentioned that Bajorans are one of my favorite Trek races, that I find them very interesting and love the episodes about their politics. That's an unpopular opinion, isn't it?
1. They should have never closed the Star Trek Experience in Vegas. I miss flying to Vegas and hanging out at the Star Trek bar.
2. Kirstie Alley needed to be in Star Trek more.
3. Canon and continuity are like two separate words with their own specific meanings and usage, but essentially they are the same words at the core (when you dig into discovering the basic meaning of the words).
4. It's okay to sleep with a Tribble toy at night... normal people just think it is a duster or fancy mini pillow or something.
5. It is never okay to mention Star Trek on a first date with a girl. Unless of course you met her at a convention or you know she is a Trekkie.
6. Trekkies 3 should be about all the hot, cool, hip and attractive fans of Star Trek.
7. Voyager is not as bad as some people make it out to be. It might have had it's problems, but it still was an exceptionally entertaining show that worked within the realm of Gene Roddenberry's sand box.
8. Star Trek fans should at least read these two basic script writing books: "Screenplay: The Foundations of Screenwriting" and "How to Write a Movie in 21 Days". Whether they intend to become a screen writer or not.
9. More people (even people that don't like comic books) need to read the Star Trek Countdown comic books before they watch JJ Abram's 2009 Star Trek.
10. TNG's Inner Light is over rated, but I still can enjoy it on occasion.
11. The Borg should have had more alien races instead of humans within it's collective. Even though I have used Voyager's 37's episode to help explain why the Borg have mostly human members. In addition, I would also like to point out that I don't consider Enterprise's Regenerations to be a part of the Prime Universe, too. I believe that Star Trek: Enterprise (as a whole) is an altered time line. So the Borg depicted in that episode are not from the Prime Universe. At least for me, anyways.
12. Every Trekkie should at least try playing one of the Star Trek role playing games (the dice and paper version) sometime in their life for fun and or profit.
13. Every Trekkie should at least cook one item from the official Star Trek cook book (whether they are a good cook or not).
14. Girls that don't like Star Trek or can't get into it are not as cool as girls that do.
15. Star Trek 4, the one with the whales, was a light hearted fun little film and is better than all of the TNG movies put together.
16. There should be a kick butt graphic novel explaining that Star Trek: Enterprise is an altered First Contact time line. In addition, it should be written by some of the best writers within Star Trek, too.
17. Jennifer Garner should make a cameo appearance within the next Star Trek film. It would be even cooler if she was a part of Section 31, as well.
18. Trekkies or folks just getting into Star Trek that haven't watched much Deep Space Nine should start watching the series with the Season 3 cliffhanger episode titled "Adversary" (DS9 Season 3: Disc 7) thru Netflix. They then should continue on with Seasons 4-7.
19. The Star Trek episodes are better than the films (with the exception of JJ Abram's film).
20. I hate how almost every ship has a circular bridge.
21. Star Trek First Contact was the only descent TNG film and it really wasn't all that great as some folks make it out to be either.
22. Star Trek: Enterprise should have took place 5-10 years (20 at most) before Kirk was born.
23. Star Trek: Enterprise should have been called Star Trek: Phoenix with the ship being called by the same name. Also, the ship should have looked more primitive and it shouldn't have had a saucer shaped exterior design, either.
24. Enterprise's Bound (The one with the Orion Slave Women) was the most ridiculously retarded explanation I have ever seen used within an episode of Star Trek. The Orion Slave Women are actually the Masters? Come on. That has got to be the stupidest thing I have ever heard on Star Trek.
25. Star Trek: Enterprise should have had an all human crew. Also, encountering a new alien race should have been a big event or big deal and not some kind of re-hashed bad Voyager episode, too.
26. TOS's Doomsday Machine Remastered is one of the best episodes of Star Trek. In fact, if it doesn't send chills down your spine. Something is wrong.
27. It takes time to get used to the effects on the Original Series. I grew up watching a few TOS episodes when I was a kid in the early 80s. Then, later, in the 90s: I couldn't stand watching the show because of the effects and cheesy sets. However, after becoming a huge fan of TNG, DS9, and VOY: I ended up giving TOS another shot by watching it late at night on the Sci Fi Channel and got hooked. So I definitely recommend in re-watching all of the episodes at least 10 times before saying no to it.
28. The Original Series and Deep Space Nine are the strongest series within Star Trek. No discussion. No debate. It's a fact.
29. The Dominion War episodes on Deep Space Nine is comparable to some really good films.
30. There should have been some type of Maqui rebellion on board Voyager in the first season of the show. Oh, and Harry should have gotten it on with Seven of Nine, too.
31. It was such a crock how Neelix left the show. I mean, right before the crew almost gets home, he just happens to run into his own kind past Borg space. Come on. That was just so freakin' retarded.
I think it peaked in terms of consistency and mood in Season 5 (and the occupation arc, but I tend to think in terms of seasons), but yes, there are episodes from much earlier (and later) that are at least as good as the stuff in that period. Maybe my opinion that Season 3 is the second best year of the show would be more unpopular?
I LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Nemesis and STV.
I agree. So does my mom. That's three of us, at least.
Cor, chief! Really?
I'm close to agreeing. It's my second favorite, after TUC.
Deep Space Nine is by far one of my top favorite well written TV shows in general. It is also my all time favorite science fiction show, too.
The first 3 seasons are a little rough to start; but Season's 4-7 are really phenomenal, though. So if you have caught very little of of Deep Space Nine, I would suggest watching it like this (to begin with)...
1. Deep Space Nine Episode Titled "The Adversary"
(Season 3, Disc 7)
Watch the last episode on disc titled "The Adversary" only, and skip past the other episode titled "Facets" on the disc. Then watch...
2. Deep Space Nine Seasons 4-7
Basically this is when the show really heats up. It is when the Dominion story line really kicks into high gear and it is when Sisko becomes a Captain and when Worf joins the crew.
Deep Space Nine Trailer:
Don't miss checking out the YouTube Trailer (above)!
Agreed on this one...
Hell no! NO, NO, and NO!
Would you start reading a novel from the middle?
DS9 should only be watched from the start. There are quite a few bad and average episodes in season 1, and most of the season does not contain important plots and feels like TNG-lite, and one could skip at least about a half of season 1. But there is still too very important character development, and are still a few indispensable episodes in season 1. Watching DS9 has to begin with Emissary. And Duet is without any doubt one of the greatest DS9 episodes, it is still my favorite. In the Hands of the Prophets is another one not to be missed. From there on (the end of season 1), the show becomes very good IMO, and seasons 2 and 3 are excellent despite a few clunkers here and there (but which Trek season doesn't have those?).
So many of the greatest DS9 episodes are from the first 3 seasons. When I see someone saying that the show doesn't get "good" until season 3, 4 or even 5, and that you should just watch the war, I find it really mind-boggling.
Thank you. It is good to know there are a few of us out there with some taste still.
Thank you. I am glad there is another strong fellow admirer of Deep Space Nine.
George Lucas did it to us with Star Wars. We started off watching A New Hope (Episode 4), and it was a smash it.
Yes. There is a lot of great back story information and things that are set up from the beginning. However, a lot of the episodes in the beginning are more like a slow moving drama with characters that haven't been fleshed out yet. So if there is someone who had a hard time getting into Deep Space Nine in the first place: This is what I would recommend. Plus, most people like faster paced story lines, too. So if it is someone who has never seen the show either. I would still recommend in watching it this way.
I mean, it's not like they can't go back and watch the first three seasons later. Sure, some things are not going to be revealed to them. But I believe the risk factor involved of the viewer being bored on his first viewing of seasons 1-3 is high. In other words, the odds are better of them liking the second half of Deep Space Nine then the first half. That is why I recommend it the way that I do (for first time viewers or for folks who have seen very little of it).
Well, that is a matter of opinion. I did like a few episodes in season 3 but they didn't come close to the awesomeness of seasons 4-7 in my book. Besides, like TNG: things were a little more cheesier in the beginning, too.
Oh, by the way. What did you think of the Deep Space Nine Trailer?
Exccellent point. Braga (either directly by name or just as "B&B") is often blamed for anything people don't like about modern day Trek, even if he wasn't involved. For example, a lot of people have a tendency to blame him for Insurrection and Nemesis, despite the fact he had nothing to do with those movies.
You know, I was hard on Voyager when it first aired, but looking back, it wasn't that bad a show. There's unfulfilled potential, definately, but it is still as solid a show as you could ask for.
1. I dislike TWOK thoroughly, but I know I'm not alone. Besides the people in this thread who have admitted this, we had a thread, oh, 6 months ago or so in which quite a number of us admitted to this "shocking" opinion. To me, though I try to be tolerant, I have to say that I don't understand why anybody likes it, and I find it shocking that anybody could consider that piece of dreck the "best" Trek movie. There aren't any truly great Trek movies, IMO (maybe I should list this as its own separate "unpopular opinion"?), but there are several that are superior to this one. There are comic books that I consider superior to this movie, and I don't even like comic books.
2. And Khan is boring, OK? Boring.
3. So are Klingons. I like some individual Klingons a lot, I like some episodes that feature a Klingon or two, but once they start all that warrior crap, I start yawning.
4. I also liked Pulaski. She annoyed me quite a bit at first (perhaps because of the McCoy factor?), but I quite warmed to her eventually...right around the time she was ousted.
5. I liked Voyager. (I agree with those who have said that this isn't really a minority opinion, but lots of people certainly like to think it is, so I'm saying it anyway. ) It isn't my favorite Trek, and it could have been much better, which is frustrating, but it was an enjoyable show, at least at the time. Once I finish rewatching DS9, I might try to watch it through again, though there are definitely episodes I will have no problem skipping.
6. And most shocking of all...I really do NOT care for McCoy. Never have, not even when I was a kid. Yeah, I know, I know, the Big 3, the Holy Trinity of Trekdom, blah blah blah, but it's the truth. Some of his bluster was fine, and some was funny, but there were times (usually when Kirk was in danger and McCoy decided to blame Spock) when he'd lash out at Spock with genuine disdain. "You don't feel anything, do you, Spock?" he'd say, even though he had to know by then that Spock did indeed feel a lot.
And at those times, he came across as bigot, and the kind of guy who when he's worried thinks he should be able to say whatever stupid hurtful thing he wants, even if he knows in his heart that it isn't true.
Anyway, I don't care for bigots, even if they feel a little ashamed of themselves afterwards, particularly when they are perfectly capable of doing exactly the same thing a few weeks later. And that's how McCoy struck me, most of the time.
That's not in any way similar and you know it. Star Wars (now called New Hope) was the first "chapter of the novel". It introduced the characters. It started the story. Lucas just went back a few decades later and made some inferior prequels.
(Not to mention that the SW prequels are awful, while seasons 2 and 3 of DS9 most certainly aren't. And even season 1 is not nearly that bad, certainly not so much to be compared to Phantom Menace...)
I would not.
One of the greatest things about DS9 is following the characters and their development from season 1 to season 7. It's not like TOS where you can just pick any episode out of order and watch it.
In the Hands of the Prophets
The Jem'Hadar/The Search
The House of Quark
Improbable Cause/The Die is Cast
These are some of the most awesome episodes of DS9 in my book. Duet is in fact still my #1, and Necessary Evil and Second Skin are in my top 5 or 6 episodes.
Also, Crossover is the only decent Mirror Universe episode DS9 produced (even though I have some problems with it as well) - while the later ones got more and more awful.
Very well done, exciting, well paced, presents many of the show's themes very well... although it's a bit too focused on Sisko.
Me three. Four. Whatever.
Separate names with a comma.