United Earth? No Thanks.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, May 8, 2013.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Surely the closest thing in todays world would be the EU. Sure most people in the EU might consider themselves British, French, Germany etc.. but they are also European Union citizens. And yes being a Eurpean Citizen does have real meaning, if a EU Citizen needs help abroad and their country doesn't have an Ambassador to that country and another EU member state does that member state is legally obligied to render aid.
     
  2. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    I'm pretty sure when Deanna refers to herself as Betazed, she's referring to her species/race/heritage, not her government. No one ever calls himself an Earthling or Terran (except in the MU), it's always human. When referring to nationality, it's Federation.

    The nature of the UFP is never fully stated onscreen, and we've only seen snippets of the Federation Constitution and Charter, but if I get the feeling that's it's a level of government somewhere between what the EU is and what the US is, at least by the 24th century.

    The biggest evidence of that is Starfleet itself, which is a unified interplanetary defense/exploration force. It's not just a coalition with troops from different planetary militaries.

    And when Changelings infiltrated Earth, was the Earth government ever even mentioned? No, Sisko goes to the Federation president with what he's found, and Starfleet ups security on Earth - not just in Paris and San Francisco, but in New Orleans.

    The last time we hear anything about an Earth government is mentions of UESPA early in TOS, before GR even conceived of the UFP.
     
  3. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Sounds good to me!
     
  4. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Ok I think that each Country would rule itself as long as it adhered to certain standards. It would mostly likely be like the UN but with teeth. As soon as a politician steps out of line or becomes corrupt starfleet security beam in and arrest them end of. People like Hitler, Sadam Hussian, Assador and all the other useless pieces of scum we have now days running things would have been removed from there position before they could hurt anyone.

    As for economy I think It would be a Socialism/ Capitalist hybrid with a heavy leaning toward Socialism.

    I think everyone Guaranteed:
    Basic Food
    Basic Clean Water
    Housing
    Education
    Healthcare

    But if you want a better house or a tastier food, holadeck time or a nice holiday you have to get a job and earn energy credits.

    One things for certain there is no huge poor/ rich divide. There is enough work for everyone. And everyone gets the same top quality healthcare and education.
     
  5. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Based on everything we've seen on screen, apparently it costs no more to replicate a given amount of tastier food than it does to replicate the same amount of basic food, as you put it.
     
  6. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    But its been repeatdly stated that replicated food tastes inferior to naturaly grown food.
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The European Union has 27 sovereign countries with 23 official languages. There's no government on top (yet), which is why things always get so incredibly complicated.

    The basic difference between federal states (USA) and federations (EU).

    A single government on top doesn't mean that there really is one single distant layer of administration. There are going to be many layers, just like today, down to the local level. Your town mayor, your district council.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I would add basic clothing and limited transportation.

    If you're traveling to school or a local destination you're good to go. However if you try to travel to a distant resort, or just site-seeing in a far away city, the basic travel won't accomidate you. In the case of clothing, you are provided approperate basic clothing for your climate, but if you want something currently fashionable, or snazzy "in" school clothes, or sexy club wear, you simply have to seek employment.

    And you got keds on your feet, not new balance.

    In one episode, Deanna Troi commented that even the chocolate created by the replicator is inferior to natural chocolate.

    Providing only basic health food, but nothing beyond that might be a deliberate decision on the part of society. If you want more than basic, improve yourself by finding employment

    It really depend on what you what to see for the future. The Members worlds governments controling the Federation Council, or the Federation Council controling the Member worlds governments.

    :)
     
  9. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    That's true. If the issue, then, is replicated food versus non-replicated food, which is by definition scarcer, then that's a different issue. But you didn't frame it that way to begin with; I don't see how a replicated four course meal with all the (replicated) trimmings can fairly count as "basic food".

    And, I'll add that I didn't notice any evidence of any kind of accounting going on at Sisko's Creole Kitchen.

    See above.
     
  10. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Which is odd because it's built from exactly the same stuff.
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Really? Which episode please.

    I'll have to check the quote (can't do it now), but didn't Riker say that what the replicator produced was "as tasty" as the real thing, but not that it was "the same?"


    :)
     
  12. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think such a government could work without becoming too powerful if there were enough checks in the form of de-centralization, independent checks, etc. The real issue of course would be those that disagreed with it. The problem with one-world government would be that you couldn't escape it without leaving Earth. Would secession be a legal option if enough gathered together?
     
  13. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    I think a big part of that is that the Enterprise's replicators are programmed for nutrition over taste. I think your average civilian could get a replicator that could produce food that is more similar to the "real" thing. Watch Deanna's convo with the computer at the beginning of The Price.
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    That would be this [from http://www.chakoteya.net/NextGen/156.htm]:

     
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    I don't know, but they create entire rooms full of objects that are just as complex and real in the holodeck, and replicate clothes and complex mechanisms that are also just as functional, so why would food be different ? I think they were just trying to find an excuse as to why people still cook. Well they still have one: it's fun.
     
  16. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Aha! This exchange between Troi and the computer suggests that the replicators could provide her with a real chocolate sundae, except that the nutritional guidelines restrict serving delicious treats to Starfleet officers, in case their waistlines start to expand. Can't have that!

    How many times did people really complain about the quality of food from the replicator? Mostly on DS9, right? Where the replicators were Cardassian and therefore probably optimized to serve Cardassian dishes. And one character, Sisko, was a chef, who would naturally be inclined to look down on replicated food, the way a chef might look down his or her nose at a meal of pre-packaged frozen lasagna reheated in a microwave. It might not be as good, but it's still lasagna.

    Picard, too, complained, but specifically about the quality of replicated caviar. It could just be a problem with the caviar "recipe" loaded in the ship's computers. It's probably "pasteurized", and Picard may have grown up consuming unpasteurized caviar.

    The idea that in the world of Trek, transporters are counted on to move people reliably on a daily basis, without apparently giving them any problems from accumulated errors in their bodies, but that replicators (based on the same technological principles and equipment) can't get food "right" doesn't strike me as verisimilitudinous.

    Anyway, what does it mean for food to be "right"? My recipe for pecan pie might not be anything like your recipe for pecan pie, but whose recipe is "right"? The one that you prefer, of course. Which only means that "right" is a matter of opinion. Are the food replicators getting things "right"? Depends on whether the characters liked what they ordered from it or not.
     
  17. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Well there has to be SOME incentive as you still have Waiters and waitresses and menial jobs.

    I mean how the hell do they get so many volenteer for starfleet security there has to be some incentive :lol:

    Its either that or people are forcebly assigned jobs.....

    I rather think my theory is better as its a gentle encouragrment to work.
     
  18. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    Have you ever been on a long unemployment period or sick leave? It gets OLD.

    I really don't think most people need encouragement to work. Most people need SOMETHING to do.

    If you really imagine a world where all of your needs are taken care of, you're still going to want something to do; you're still going to want something to give you a sense of purpose. I can imagine people willingly working for free without any kind of coercion.

    In the 24th century, 15 work hours a week from 25% of the population is probably more than enough work to keep the Federation running. People are probably competing for non-paying jobs.
     
  19. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Let's keep in mind that waiters in Ten Forward were serving aboard a Galaxy-class starship captained by none other than Jean-Luc Picard. There probably would be a waiting list for applicants to such a position, even if the position offered no salary.
     
  20. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah but being a waiter? Or the person who presses the button of the replicator in the factorys? Holodeck cleaners :guffaw: