United Earth? No Thanks.

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, May 8, 2013.

  1. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Premium Member

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    What's the maximum number of citizens that's acceptable to you?
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The problem with a world government is it would be governed by the people of the world.

    I see this happening before humanity unites too. Fact of the matter is there are people who simply wouldn't want to be part of a global nation. Be it because they want to rule one, because they simply don't want to water down their culture and way of life, or don't trust the concept of a bloated world government when smaller nations can't even govern their nations efficiently.
     
  3. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

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    It's a utopian future. The politicians of United Earth might actually give a crap about their electorate.
     
  4. cheesepuff316

    cheesepuff316 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    -- This is just my opinion, feel free to politely disagree --

    English is already one of if not the most widely spoken language on Earth already. I assume that there are still other languages used by humans living wherever but for the sake of simplicity, representatives of Earth speak English.....

    I think that it would similar to a local / central government style in that there would still be national governments deciding things, but any major changes that will affect how the whole planet interacts with other species are decided by the Planet Government.....

    As proved by Picard / Chakotay, national culture is still very important and defines how people live but they can still get along with others despite any cultural differences.

    This basically says it all...
    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Human
     
  5. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Personally, I saw the United Earth as being a result of first contact with extraterrestrials. The awareness of aliens that could visit Earth at any given time now motivated the vast majority of Earth's surviving nations to set aside most of their differences and band together.

    Within the confines of the Federation, the United Earth could almost be akin to a local government, IMO.
     
  6. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Eh, given the Federation has a track record of most everyone ranked Admiral or higher being either corrupt, stupid or just evil... I'm inclined to think the politicians aren't any better.
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I fully embrace and support the concept of a true United Earth. I'm not naive enough to think it will happen anytime soon, but I think it's inevitable. Unity is the future.
     
  8. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Hmm. Stay trapped in the cycle of separation, nationalism, conflict, and war? Wars which inevitably only benefit the unelected wealthy elite and undermine both liberty and democracy? Or unite as one people, who join together to create a progressive, planetary democracy -- and then join with other worlds to create a progressive, interstellar democracy?

    Gosh. I can't imagine which I'd prefer.

    And one need only live in any small town dominated by a good ol' boys network to know that a smaller government is no indication it won't be dominated by uncaring elites.
     
  9. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think Trek's United Earth concept is 45% philosophy, 35% practicality, 20% politics.

    Most of the idea seems to leans towards cultures/nations needing to learn to get along in order to advance.

    I take this to mean that a lot of religious, cultural, and behavioral baggage from around the world will have to be left behind in order for that to happen.

    In one episode, having only one planet-wide government was a basic requirement for Federation membership. If a culture didn't have one, they were generally ineligible to join.

    It would probably drives conspiracy theorists crazy, but how else would humans finally "get there"?
     
  10. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    I'd imagine that over the centuries, increased mobility paired with instantaneous worldwide communication (the netz) would eventually erase cultural differences.

    As sad as it sounds, it's already happening - about 2 languages die every month. Dialects of American English are losing their distinctiveness. People are abandoning religion. A Chinese man and his Canadian wife can get a delicious Ethiopian meal in Rome.

    The internet is only speeding this process up.
     
  11. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If the power is centralized I agree.

    If local decisions are made by locally elected governors and the central government only makes military and interstate rulings, none of that applies.

    Unified government with decentralized power, that's my vote. That way you could globally enforce things like "Don't stone women to death for showing their chin in public" but "Jon gets to have a loud party that disturbs his neighbors" is decided locally.

    Amendments 9 and 10 bitches!
     
  12. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Mandarin is spoken by nearly three time as many people today as English, although not as widely. Spanish is almost as widely spoken as English and is spoken by many more people. Picard, Chekov, Uhura all spoke a native languages other than English. English seem to be the common language in Starfleet, but to how many people on the future Earth was it their first language?

    And with the universal translator, would a common Earth language really be all that important?

    I've always though something around two billion would be nice. A few large cities like San Fransisco, mostly small towns and villages, Picard spoke of the community he grew up just outside of as a "village."

    :)
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  13. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Governing affects things locally, so you always need some kind of local representation. In the USA we have the states, united under one federal government. It works... however, if you're stretching to distant lands in different time zones and significantly different regional cultures, it does NOT work (the USA does this in a very limited sense, e.g. Alaska, Hawaii). Human social history is a good indication of this, as empires sought to dominate and control a significant portion of the globe, but ultimately ended up shrinking back to more "manageable" proportions.

    I see an eventual UGC of some sort (United Global Council) formed to address issues that have global importance. This is becoming increasingly imperative, as we've no global accountability at this point. Rain forests, seas, and wilderness stretches (to name a few) are being abused at the expense of global security. The unbridled exploitation needs to stop, or we're going to ruin the planet for comfortable and sustainable human living. You can't effectively limit exploitation without a global entity of some sort, because without it there is no way to enforce accountability.

    So while I don't see a "world government", I do see the need for something like the United Nations that has a much more active and effective role in global affairs.
     
  14. Deckerd

    Deckerd Fleet Arse Premium Member

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    I think people are confusing nationality with ethnicity here. I meant let's face it in ST Earth there will be ethnic minorities living quite happily who did not evolve on Earth, so the idea that somehow there will be a homogeneous human population is as laughable in the future as it is now. Geography alone will see to that. Mass rapid transport, as it is now, will only be used by the minority who want to move around.
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thinking about this, the "world government" could be designed and structured so as that it solely dealt with diplomatic relations between Earth and other species, general interstellar matters and sending a representative to the Federation Council. After that the world government would effectively have no powers what-so-ever. The national governments of Earth would each send a representative to the body. The Prime Minister or President of a nation might themselves choose a subordinate directly, or simply leave the selection to their Secretary of State. Call the representative to the world government a "Undersecretary for Interstellar Affairs," or something like that.

    If a Andorian family immigrated from Andor to Earth and settled in Australia, would they be (after paperwork) a citizen of Earth, or a citizen of Australia?

    I think they'd be a citizen of Australia.

    :)
     
  16. Third Nacelle

    Third Nacelle Captain Captain

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    Neither. They'd be a citizen of the United Federation of Planets, as they were all along. They never emigrated. They just moved.

    The phrase "Federation citizen" has definitely been heard on screen, I just can't remember when.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah, I'd think it'd be like someone moving from New York to Texas or something in the US. You may need to get a new local id, but that's about the extent of it.
     
  18. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Well, technically-speaking, someone moving from New York to Texas does indeed lose New York citizenship and gain Texan citizenship, all the while retaining United States citizenship.

    So there's no particular reason why an Andorian who moves to Australia couldn't gain United Earth and Australian citizenships while still retaining Federation citizenship.
     
  19. USS Einstein

    USS Einstein Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    We already have a United Earth world government - i.e. we are all ruled by big business.

    So the question really is 'what type of United Earth', because that ship already sailed.

    United Earth seems to be a post scarcity society in which humans are no longer coerced from birth-to-death into paying rent in the form of wage labour to their masters, in exchange for the right to survive.

    But it still has 'money' (Federation credits), so perhaps beyond survival needs, Federation citizens can still choose to find employment, without coercion, in order to make more complicated products (such as Picard family wine).
     
  20. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    While not completely sure, I believe that came from Picard, but Picard is likely one of the rare people on the show (there are a few others) who would even use a term like "citizen of the Federation."

    Captain Kirk might say the "I/We are from the Federation" in a official capacity, but it's perfectly clear that he thought of himself as a Earthman. Deanna consistently referred to herself as a Betazed, even with her mixed Betazed/Human ancestry, I can't remember Deanna ever personally calling herself a "Federatista" or some such.

    The people of the United States of America refer to ourselves as "Americans." There is no sign on the show that there exists any common identifier for people from worlds that are in membership with each other in the UFP.

    Federation citizen would be a informal colloquialism, that has no real meaning. Somewhat like the current "citizen of the world," "citizen of the Federation" would be a charming expression that has no official meaning.

    :)
     

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