Understanding Major Hayes

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Enterprise' started by Shamrock Holmes, Jul 20, 2014.

  1. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Or more specifically the issue of his rank.

    Canonically, he holds the rank of Major, which should in theory place him fourth in the ship's hierarchy below Archer, T'Pol and Trip, and above Hoshi, Mayweather and Reed.

    However, it was clear in many episodes that Reed outranked him (Hayes referred to Reed as 'sir' on several occasions, something that AFAIK isn't even done with peers, and followed his orders on several occasions - though sometimes reluctantly).

    Now, in canon the best that we have is a possible 'Archer said so', which seems a little vague to me. So I've been trying to come up with other explanations.

    ---

    Option 1/"The Mirror Universe":

    If Reed is actually a Lieutenant Commander, then it more or less works, especially if you assume that the O-3 'Captain' and O-4 'Major' have been merged at O-3 level, and Reed 'out-ranks' him mainly by being a member of the ship's senior staff.

    Option 2/"The Warrant Officer":

    On the other hand, if Hayes is a Sergeant Major, then him being out-ranked by a Lieutenant makes perfect sense, and the tension is rather mainly an inter-service and/or officer v enlisted one.

    ---

    Personally, I prefer the second option, even if the first requires less use of fanon, especially as from what I can tell, this is the way the Security forces on a modern frigate or similar would be managed?

    Shamrock Holmes
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2014
  2. LeadHead

    LeadHead Director of Comedy Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Location:
    LeadHead
    Hayes was not a starfleet officer, his team were essentially outside contractors aboard a Starfleet Ship. Since Reed was in charge of security, they were under his direct authority. The only time Hayes could give orders to Starfleet personnel was when Archer directly gave Hayes command of the bridge in "Hatchery."
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    I'm assuming you meant Hayes here.

    The way it plays for me in the show is someone on the writing staff didn't understand service ranks. Perhaps Hayes was deferring to Reed out of professional courtesy, but an army major outranks a naval lieutenant if I understand it properly. I think an army captain is equivalent to a naval lieutenant, but maybe they didn't want more than one captain on the show.
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2009
    Location:
    T'Girl
    First, Hays isn't a part of the ship's chain of command, he wouldn't for example be legally able to issue a command to an ensign.

    Second, at least as I understand it, the MACO's were place under the control of the ship's tactical department, which was run by Lt. Reed.

    Now Hayes saying "yes sir" could be him simply acknowledging a directive from Reed, yes sir meaning "I understand."

    :)
     
  5. Shamrock Holmes

    Shamrock Holmes Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2009
    Yup.

    Corrected in OP
     
  6. trekshark

    trekshark Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2014
    Location:
    USA
    I've never served in the military but as I understand it rank does not necessarily equal position/authority
     
  7. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    Apparently, MACOS in the Terran Empire ARE in the chain of command...Reed was a MACO in that universe, and he is said to be next in line after Archer and T'Pol I think.

    A naval Lieutenant is an O-3. Hayes, as a Major, is an O-4. So he outranked Reed by one grade. An army Captain is indeed equivalent to a naval Lieutenant.

    As for why Hayes deferred to Reed: What T'Girl said. Reed, as the security chief/tactical officer, commands everyone on the ship who is responsible for either of these things. Including the MACOS.

    What I'm wondering is, who took over when Hayes was killed? He didn't have a Captain or Lieutenant serving as his second. In fact I think Hayes may have been the only MACO officer on the ship...
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    I did have trouble with Reed's attitude toward Hayes, because it made him look like an insecure twit.
     
  9. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    Well I can understand where Reed's coming from...he may have thought that Archer, by bringing the MACOS on board, thought Reed and his people weren't good enough and couldn't get the job done. And Hayes, OTOH, probably thought that all the Starfleet people were just amateurs who could never measure up to professional soldiers like them.

    So in this case I suppose Reed should have been pissed at Archer as well, but Reed respects his captain too much to ever say anything.
     
  10. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Uh what? There was a whole squad of MACOs... when he died he named Corporal McKenzie as the best person to replace him as leader in "Countdown". This is never followed up on though.
     
  11. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    Mr. Laser Beam is in the visitor's bullpen
    But apparently none of them (apart from Hayes) were officers. Hayes should have had at least one officer serving as his second in command.
     
  12. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2012
    Location:
    Republic of California
    Unless someone messed up and dropped the "sergeant" before the "major", making them all enlisted or non-commissioned officers.

    But, he has a gold oak leaf for his rank patch, which matches the commissioned officer rank of Major in the US Army, Aarines, Air Force, and used for Lt. Commander in the US Navy.