Tuvok is an Idiot

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Defiant Obrien, Jun 29, 2013.

  1. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    I am watching Star Trek Voyager Season 4: Episode 2 after taking a brief siesta from Voyager

    (They have just brought on board 7 of 9 and unplugged her from the collective)

    Kes is going through some sort of transformation

    In this epsiode, Tuvok is trying to help her control some new aspects of her mental abilities with more vulcan voodoo magic. The result is to have a powerful, undisciplined telekinetic PLAY WITH FIRE


    I dont care what anybody says, Spock would never do something this idiotic...

    This is just one example of Tuvok using logic to do something stupid. He has a very... "cant see the forest for the trees" mentality...
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And you're an expert on telepathy? Did that give you your keen insights on all Asians?
     
  3. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    I am speaking about the character of tuvok. And I inferred an offhand observable trait of mainstream asian culture is all


    The point is, this Tuvok is a poorly written vulcan character.
     
  4. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I think the point is, you have a problem with Asian people.
     
  5. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    As Spock never had the chance to meet Kes, it's hard to know what he'd have done in the same situation. In any event, I hardly think it was necessary to take a shot at Asian people just to make a point.

    --Sran
     
  6. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm not a big Voyager fan, but I remember that Tuvok was trying to help Kes control what was happening to her. That's not stupid, that's smart. And compassionate.

    Oh, and here's something that might be helpful in the future: infer vs. imply
     
  7. JanewayRulz!

    JanewayRulz! Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tuvok had a long history of helping Kes train her mind. All he was doing was trying to splint her mental capabilities enough to hold herself together enroute to the shuttle bay.
     
  8. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    Nah dice my friend.. Just because i chose not to be around a certain type of community doesnt mean there is something wrong with it.

    Case in point, my asian friends that dont live in pre-dominantly asian communities are normal. Im arabic myself but i dont hang out with mainstream arabs because of similar societal issues..

    I cant believe i let you idiots drag me into this race card nonsense.. lets go back to ragging on tuvok
     
  9. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    Its not that he was helping her train her mind. its that he is dumb enough to need fire to do it. There was a season 2 episode where she nearly boiled his blood from some "accident" .. did this guy forget that? I remember it..

    Hell if it happened to me the last thing i would want is to be anywhere near fire with a telepath that could turn me into a crispy critter because she cut a fart... LOGIC DICTATES..


    geez
     
  10. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, no. You dragged yourself into it in your first post. :rolleyes:
     
  11. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    I wasnt "taking a shot" ... The analogy i stated is a FACT about mainstream asian mentality. Its the kind of thing you recognize only living around large populations of them. I meant no disrespect nor did i say anything about it being WRONG.. its an observation from an outsider

    Do i really need to rattle off my own peoples flaws/observations to make this seem "fair"???? come on now people.. lets drop this..
     
  12. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    I don't think this needs commenting.

    Yeah, let's.

    Lulz.
     
  13. Defiant Obrien

    Defiant Obrien Lieutenant

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    ..corrections have been made.. please forgive.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Spock melded with V'Ger, a super telepathic intelligence he could "feel" half a galaxy away which sent him for loops claiming that Logic can suck it.

    Hmmm?

    What's Old Spock going to do when he "feels" V'Ger entering the Milky Way, and is nuSpock going to be just as excited?

    That is if Nero killing V'Ger in comic books hasn't been discounted?
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  15. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe 2-Spock will send Tuvok to take care of it. ;)
     
  16. Saturn0660

    Saturn0660 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm still trying to figure out the Asian thing?:confused:
     
  17. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Next best thing to Godwin? Maybe, the opening post was edited later? What the hell is Asian culture?
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well you can easily argue that there are extreme differences between China and Japan, but India is also rocking out in Asia, which means that you then have the opportunity to easily argue that there are extreme differences between India and Pakistan.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2013
  19. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Tuvok is a great character, definitely one of my all-time Star Trek favorites.

    A bit stiff and rigid sometimes but I find that a part of his charm, besides that, he's a great contrast and complement to Janeway and Chakotay in that matter.
     
  20. Triskelion

    Triskelion Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Culture and race are not synonymous, except of course to those cultures that make them synonymous.

    Who made race a major factor in a society in the first place?

    Must be nice to have it both ways: racism and rationalism, to play either card when it's convenient. To enjoy both racial majority discrimination as well as indiscriminate tolerance.

    "My country is not racist. We only have one race." I have heard this many, many times, from sincere people who feel above accountability when it comes to discrimination against their own minorities. They swallow the self-serving narrative hook, line and sinker.

    Convenient. There is such a thing, though, as making cultural observations, but how do you do that with a race-based society without being accused of the same racial bias the society clearly embraces?

    Racial factors are "implicit", for some ab initio reason.


    Projecting "egalitarian rationalism" on societies with deeply-rooted racial histories somehow misses the mark, I think. Not every culture shares enlightened racial egalitarian values - whether they invoke them when convenient and discard them equally conveniently. May I say, people in such societies may not even want the well-meaning liberal defense. You see - "they" identify with race. "They" value racial bias. Wrap your brain around that!

    If you want to point out racism, travel around the world and enjoy your new full time job!

    Not defending the OP. Just clarifying that rational tolerance and egalitarianism are not values embraced as often as they are invoked. Sorry if I also find it hypocritical to enjoy rational, egalitarian tolerance for a clearly racially-biased society that may or may not be moving toward rational egalitarianism in deed to go with the word.

    Also, I understand what the OP was getting at. Problem solving is one factor of cultural differences among many. Nothing to do with race, and everything to do with cultural heritage. Not synonymous except to those who cannot or do not make such distinctions. Assuming all cultures have about the same values is a worse kind of racism, because it claims to be rational but it is bias.

    Liberal idealism fails to recognize the actual tolerance for cultural differences - and there are differences - because it assumes its own value system is "optimal" and "universally valued." "We tolerate all races and creeds at our democratic convention, except those damned religious regional idiots." Prejudice in its rawest form. Only the adjectives have changed. "My way is the best way" is still the narrative? The creed to be evangelized? No tolerance of difference? No understanding of cultural nuance?

    Cultural relativism can tolerate almost anything - children working in brick factories, whole swathes of population being decimated by an economic majority, rampant environmental destruction, ad nauseum.

    To not realize the influence of western culture on rationalism is to not appreciate your own cultural heritage. Reverse racism and equally offensive. But forgivable, because it's usually the product of a lack of worldly experience.

    Still - caution everyone all the time about every possible evil. That kind of heroism is always needed and never smugly self-deluding. Lecture a firefighter about the evils of fire. She'll thank you for it. (And obviously, she must be some kind of a pyro, right)?

    "Parrothead."
    Is what I would call myself.