Tuvix - dumbest character in star trek history?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by ElimGarak, Oct 2, 2012.

  1. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not really, Tuvix's fate if he had remained unmurdered is affected by how pon farr came to be integral to Vulcans.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2012
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Romulans do it everyday.

    Although.

    Spock without his marbles knocked up Saavik.

    But his body might have been restepping the familiar path it took the first time around.
     
  3. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The 7 year bit has to be brainwashing with a trigger of some kind. Otherwise the fail Vulcans, the ones that are secretly wacking off and not confessing it would find their pon farr delayed.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Recall.

    Pon far can also be quelled by winning or losing a fight to the death.

    Sex and killing.

    No difference.
     
  5. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, I always thought that was pretty stupid not that I'm arguing with canon here. But I don't think being in the V'Shar and possibly assassinating people is going to stave off pon farr. It seems it can be quelled as you say by sex of killing but staved off possibly not. Which brings us back to the brainwashing or salmon.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Here's another stupid theory.

    In the beginning, after the age of enlightenment, the Vulcans created the life of pure logic. It was awesome. However... How many decades were they going to get off on this before they noticed that no one was fucking and there were no children, ipso facto no new next generation?

    The species was fucked.

    Doomed even.

    An artificial widget had to be introduced to force these nerds to copulate.

    Pon far is the ultimate countermeasure to the selfcockblock.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And the pon farr continues the need for the repression because their culture steeps them in deep embarrassment about it. And it's also seemingly not very fun but violent and exhausting and terrifying. If they actually enjoyed it they might question repressing everything for another 7 years. It's quite a neat set up.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Romulans have an Empire which straddles half the beta quadrant.

    The Vulcans can barely full up one planet.

    Rampant emotions lead to nuclear war my ass.

    It's all about resources.

    Too many people not enough shit.

    Controlling emotion is about removing the sex urge, shrinking the population and creating the necessary excess utility required to fund a utopia, thus assuring the end of war and the survival of the species.

    It's all really obvious if you just take a second to think about it.
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But you can replicate shit.
     
  10. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think he means in old days, they society developed pre replicators that way. Not much resources on a desert planet, no way off the planet, have to keep the population down.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The age of Enlightenment was the final (nuclear)war between the Surakian (who was still alive at the time)Vulcans and the Romulans which happened in the 4th century BC (earth time), which is when Rome was really starting to get on it's feet and Socrates was executed for diddling his (adult?) students. We saw Archer have a dream about this, (katra sponsored VISION.) where he met Surak, and this also dates to that telepathic WMD Picard was looking for in TNG Gambit that was rendered useless if you didn't have violent thoughts for it to use against you as a catalyst inside your soul.

    At the end of this war.

    After winning or losing.

    The Romulans left Vulcan.

    In space ships.

    Coexistence is for chumps.

    (in TOS some god says in Return Tomorrow that Vulcans had been in space for half a million years.)

    You could say that the Romulans lost and ran away as refugees, but how could millions of Romulan astronauts trek out into unknown space to form hundreds of colonies after their homeworlds biosphere had been wrecked by thousands of nuclear explosions in population centres? But frankly if they could have just left easily... Why start/fight a nuclear war? Did the Saurakian Vulcans start the war? but if the Saurakian Vulcans had won the war, what were they going to do with the millions if not billions of surviving Romulans?

    Eviction or execution?

    The only way that the Romulans would have been able to leave, using half the planets natural resources to build massive space arks, is if they won the war and still controlled those resources, but Vulcan was a much shittier planet after the war not worth keeping and couldn't support as much life as it used to be able to, so the sliver of the population left behind to die on the now desert world of Vulcan were the Surak worshipping Vulcans.

    2000 years before the invention of replicators.

    Hell, if you go by TOS, when the Romulans first met Humanity, in the 22nd century, they hadn't invented warp Drive yet... So 18 centuries earlier the Romulans must have colonized world after world in impulse powered generational ships, where it took them decades to slip between worlds instead of days, this is not a lifeplan some one with choices sets out on.

    Oh.

    If the Saurakian Vulcans won the age of enlightenment, they might have forced/only allowed the the Romulan refugees to use the highly irradiated metal from the bombsites to build their massive space arks. I mean that shit had to be cleared and it was valueless and poison, it would have fucked up the planet if it wasn't kicked off the planet screwing up the water table and food chain for more generations than it should have since they had the technology, if not the will to clean it all up or eject it into space... Which explains the forehead mutations.

    The space arks were toxically irradiated.

    Gosh.

    Either the Romulans didn't have a choice or the Saurakian Vulcans were assholes still trying to kill the Romulans with "kindness" like the yanks did with those smallpox blankets to the Indians.
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe that's why the Romulans left. They wanted to have sex. This would also explain why they have an entire empire full of planets. :p
     
  13. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's a nice run through Guy. I know I've read these speculations on the timing before but I always forget how long it's been since they had space travel. They either really hit a wall (perhaps the atrophying of curiosity was their undoing?) OR at some point most races just plateau and advancements become less about faster and bigger. Because they've spent seemingly many thousands of years with not much development. Of course if you see no point in exploration you're not going to be urging your species into dangerous new territory. Maybe the big adventure of repression slowed them significantly.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If you believe the Shadows from Babylon 5, technical and social evolution only comes from war.
     
  15. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    But if you believe The Vorlons, it comes through long periods of Order and Peace.
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And if you believe The Eternal Tide peace and war must continually hold each other in balance in some great yin yang cosmospiritual thingie.
     
  17. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I always thought Barclay was one of the dumbest characters in Trek. Granted he's a capable engineer, but someone with that many obvious mental health issues should never be allowed aboard a starship. He's unstable to say the least and I wouldn't trust him with my car...if I had a car. How he ever made it through the academy and manged to get posted on the Enterprise-D is miraculous. He must have had dirt on Picard...scandalous photos of his vacation on Risa no doubt. That just about he only way to justify how someone so unstable would be allowed serving in Starfleet, which constitutes a character so poorly created that he is in fact, dumber than Tuvix.

    That being said, I've only seen Tuvix once, and only remember the general premise of the episode, so far in as the two main characters being fused into one new being. Certainly stranger things have happened with the Transporter, so it's not so far beyond the realm of possibility that in of itself, the creation of Tuvix is inherently a poor idea.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can't remember how Barclay was that serious a mental health situation.. all I remember is the social anxiety and holo addiction. TNG is my least watched series.
     
  19. Jimi_James

    Jimi_James Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    His severe social anxiety, holo addiction stemming from an obsession with imaginary characters, and self conscious behavior and attitudes extending into a perception of inadequacy; in addition to his fear of transporters, which was cute when Bones did it because it was sort of a joke, but with Barclay it was a crippling disability at least until he overcame it, all contributed to the hindrance of his performance on numerous occasions.

    Now granted, knowing a thing or two personally about disability, I'd never be one to say what one should or shouldn't be able to do, but I also know where that 'don't discriminate against me because of my disability' ends and where I have to be honest with myself about what I can actually do.

    The same level of honesty should be applied to Barclay and his disabilities, and that's exactly what they are because on numerous occasions his various mental disorders prevented him from performing his job. Starfleet must be pretty lenient though, because in any other situation with a command structure like Starfleet, he would have been fired.

    And if Starfleet is supposed to be the best and the brightest, than they've lowered their standards, because he only meets half that qualification. He has the brains, but I would not want him representing the entire Federation, which is what every Starfleet officer is. In any real psych evaluation, he would have been red flagged during the academy if not before, and not been allowed to enter the academy or graduate.

    Plus, I don't like that he's supposed to be a satirical composite of Trekies, and how he just happens to possess many of the worst stereotypes about Star Trek fans. I'm surprised they didn't have him living in what amounts to some sort of basement of the Enterprise.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He held together better than he did on the A-team each week.