TTN: Fallen Gods by Michael A. Martin Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Jul 21, 2012.

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Rate Fallen Gods.

  1. Outstanding

    2 vote(s)
    2.2%
  2. Above Average

    15 vote(s)
    16.5%
  3. Average

    40 vote(s)
    44.0%
  4. Below Average

    23 vote(s)
    25.3%
  5. Poor

    11 vote(s)
    12.1%
  1. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Read the thread now. Interesting how I'm in such total agreement with everyone else over this, but I was on a different page with almost everyone over Plagues/Dawn.

    So it seems the general consensus is "Better than Seize the Fire, but that's not saying much." I find myself forced to agree.

    I'm also afraid that I might have to agree with some of you in that this might be the end for me with Titan, unless someone else takes over the series. As much as I said before it's not a lot of money to take a risk over, there's no point throwing it away if you know you're not gonna enjoy the book. It's a real shame, especially since along with all of you I thought some of the earlier Titan books were some of the best TrekLit books there have been.

    .
     
  2. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I haven't read the two Michael A. Martin solo Titan books yet, but I really think that if Titan really is becoming a one author series, then that author should be Christopher Bennett. So far his two Titan books have been some of the best entries in the series yet. He's also one of the best authors when it comes to world building, and IMO that really should be a big part of Titan, since the series is supposed to be focused on getting back to the exploration side of Starfleet.
     
  3. Warp Coil

    Warp Coil Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm about half way through Fallen Gods. Is it better than Seize the Fire? Yes. It is compelling? Not particularly. So far I share the opinion of many posters that it's merely okay. I get the impression that Martin likes the science and world-building but kinda lacks depth when it comes to characters.
     
  4. lvsxy808

    lvsxy808 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just quoting myself here because I had some further thoughts on this just a few minutes ago.

    I was reading the Wikipedia page on Hurricane Sandy, specifically the section about its connection to global warming. And I was sadly reminded of those idiots who believe (or claim to believe at least) that global warming is a hoax, and in fact blame the hurricane on gay marriage or something equally nonsensical.

    These people are like the Trashers. People who are so married to their doctrine, who will utterly ignore all scientific facts if they disagree with their established world view, no matter how illogical that world view is. These right-wing whackjobs blame death and destruction on a massive scale on two people who love each other acknowledging such in public - something that any non-raging-moron can see has nothing to do with anything - while simultaneously refusing to accept what all evidence points towards actually is responsible, and in fact blocking any efforts to solve that root cause.

    One would have hoped that seeing such monumentally, stunningly stupid people in fiction was bad enough. But today I was reminded that such people actually exist in the real world. And that paradoxically made me happier with this book, because what I had taken to be bad writing was actually a perfect representation of something real that I would just rather wasn't.

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  5. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    The idea that Starfleet officers can turn down transfer orders just because they are not Federation citizens is just ridiculous.
    Does that mean Nog can turn down transfer orders more easily than a human officer? Ridiculous.

    That "resolution" was not very likely (in reality) or clever (for Riker to come up with). Anti-climatic.
     
  6. PKS8304

    PKS8304 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Well I finished Brinkmanship and jumped right into this book.

    I had posted around these parts after reading Brinkmanship how while Ive been enjoying the books and found the Typhon Pact storyline intruiging, having it be a huge part of the story of every Trek novel was becoming slightly tedious.

    So I went into this book a little excited. After all, this is Titan. Riker and his crew are getting back to Trek roots and exploring space.

    Then I quickly realized that even here, Typhon Pact was casting shadows.

    The Andorian situation and Riker's stance to defy orders felt a little unecessary for me. Honestly, after reading Seize the Fire I went into this book excited to see where the story went with Tuvok.

    On that aspect I was not disappointed. I was really enjoying Fallen Gods, starting with a new race and running with what they are dealing with, I thought tying their solution in with the Tuvok ecosculpting knowledge was really cool and a great way to tie in Titan and its crew.

    Unfortunately (and ironically) I was sighing when it came to reading the scenes with the main characters of the book. I understand the Andorians leaving is a big deal. I understand its had a huge impact on the Federation. I understand this because its being covered in books about characters that arent supposed to be off on a deep space mission exploring. Then, the Andorians show up! Whats more, they brought the Tholians with them!

    I literally finished the last 100 pages of this book to be done with it. Even the parts I was initially enjoying on the planet and the Tuvok/White Blue arc were basically just keeping me from abandoning the book all together.

    I feel like the Andorians/Tholians hammering down the whole Twinning Transporter Tech (say that five times fast) cheapens the TNG episode with Tom Riker a little bit. It was supposed to be a fluke, not a plot device to be adapted into future Trek. Even going back further the episode where Spock tinkers with the same idea, fantastical ideas like this should be used in small doses.

    So now we're left with an open ended plotline that will be presumably picked up in the next Titan novel and at best to me is plainly annoying. A distraction from what Titan is supposed to be.

    I would prefer Michael Martin write another Titan novel to wrap all this up and have the next Titan novel resume going out and seeing whats out there.

    I dont exactly feel like others that Martin cant write the characters, I think he does a fine job, I actually really like his Tuvok. I just find that I dont like some of the characters.

    To be honest, I wish Vale wasnt in this series. I also am getting a little tired of Ranul. This is one of the rare cases where a Star Trek series presents a group of regular characters that have in some ways become boring when set against the diversity and interested crew being seen around them.

    I liked this book for about half the time I was reading it and not as simple as the first half or the second.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^James Swallow is writing the next TTN novel.
     
  8. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    In "Measure of a Man" Phillipa Louvois, a JAG captain and legal expert, says that Starfleet transfer orders cannot be stopped/countermanded/overridden/refused by the Starfleet officer receiving the orders.
    The only way to stop them is to leave Starfleet. That is why Data was resigning his commission in the episode.
    It seems clear to me that Star Trek cannon has already established that the "way out" of the transfer orders used in this book is not possible.

    And the parallels are pretty strong.
    "Measure of a Man", like the situation in "Fallen Gods", was about a Starfleet officer who's race was not a member of the Federation. [Because Data doesn't really have a standing race.]

    Really, in this book, it would have made more sense for Riker to have helped all his Andorian crew members leave Starfleet, while maintaining their Federation citizenship. Then he might have been able to keep them aboard as "civilian observers". That would make more sense than what happen.
     
  9. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just finished the book, and, to be honest, I really don't know how I feel about it. Revisiting and expanding on the circumstances whereby we ended up with two Rikers is an interesting story development, but would have been better suited to being dealt with as the subject of a multiple-book subseries (i.e. Destiny or Cold Equations) rather than a one-shot book that leaves the scenario unresolved and open-ended. The situation is exacerbated by the fact that there's absolutely nothing present in novels from other series that take place chronologically following this book that even hints at the monumental developments that this book sets into motion.

    I did really enjoy the situation involving the Tai'thans, and particularly liked their intersex nature. The resolution of lingering issues from Seize the Fire was also neatly handled.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2012
  10. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Well, their particular species isn't technically the issue -- their world of citizenship is. Since Data was "born" on a world that was considered a colony of United Earth, I would imagine that -- if the Federation were to get off its ass and clarify Data's legal status in a clear, unambiguous, and egalitarian manner -- Data would qualify as a United Earth citizen and a Federation citizen (and thus receive his representation on the Federation Council through the Federation Councillor from United Earth, and be entitled to vote for an MP in the Parliament of United Earth, etc).

    Interesting question: I wonder how Starfleet is reacting to biological Andorian officers who may not have been Andorian citizens. There may be, for instance, officers born from an Andorian diaspora on Alpha Centauri, whose ancestors have been on Alpha Centauri for over a hundred years and who have no real connection to Andor. Would those Andorians also be subject to Starfleet paranoia?

    I agree completely.
     
  11. datalogan

    datalogan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think it’s clearly a race issue. It’s the Andorian race that is dying out. It’s the Andorian race that can’t interbreed with any other races in the galaxy. The Andorian government is mad at the Federation for withholding information from the Andorians as a race of people, not as a planetary body.

    And it’s the Andorian race as a whole that is being questioned by the Federation and Starfleet—regardless of planetary affiliation (or lack thereof).

    You do bring up other issues, Sci, like planet of origin or Andor citizenship versus Federation citizenship. But I think those kind of issues are exactly the kind of thing that organizations like Starfleet forget when knee-jerk reactions like this take place. It’s fairly realistic—although not praiseworthy.
     
  12. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I finished this last night. Although it wasn't a masterpiece, I enjoyed it quite a bit, as I had Seize the Fire previously. The Andorian plot was my favorite part of the book, and I'm interested to see what's next for the ressurrected Andorian Imperial Guard, as well as the duplicate Titan officers.
     
  13. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The next Andorian story seems to be A Ceremony of Losses, the third of Star Trek: The Fall.
     
  14. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    The Fall mini-series is definitely something I'm looking forward to:bolian:
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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  16. Defcon

    Defcon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I linked to it in the Picture the Novelverse thread a couple of days ago figuring you would get a kick out of it, but I guess you don't frequent that thread.
     
  17. Mage

    Mage Commodore Commodore

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    I'm seriously considering re-reading Fallen Gods, since I can't remember half of it really. And if the new Titan novel is to follow-up on this, I should sort of remember what happened I guess. Not really looking forward to it though. :(
     
  18. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As mentioned earlier in the thread 'SPOILERS' !...

    There are transporter duplicates.

    That really is all you need to know. That is all I can remember anyway, and I have NO intention of re-reading it.
     
  19. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Not yet.

    Of course, I haven't got to this one in English yet, either, and managed to spoilerize myself by posting the pic here. Nickyboy sent me the link today.

    Coincidentally, I'd only just ordered my copy of "Star Trek: Typhon Pact 4: Zwietracht", von Dayton Ward, from Amazon.de :techman:
     
  20. rfmcdpei

    rfmcdpei Captain Captain

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    It's possible that there are no large Andorian populations outside of the Andorian Empire. If Andorians can find their reproductive partners only from among their own species in an ever-shrinking pool of potential partners, it wouldn't be very easy at all to set up an independent Andorian society cut off from that pool.
     

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