TSFS BluRay - Letterboxed Opening Credits

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Oso Blanco, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I've just noticed that the opening credits on the TSFS BD are letterboxed while on the previous DVD editions they appear in widescreen.

    Any explanation for this? What was it like on the VHS and LD editions?
     
  2. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Remember that TSFS is in the 2.35:1 ratio, so it will still have bars on the top and bottom even when shown on a widescreen TV.
     
  3. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    That's not what I meant. On the DVD, it starts with a small window for the flashback scene from TWOK ... then the windows is getting larger until we have the 2.35:1 screen filled. On the BD however, it starts with a small window for the flashback and then it grows to full 2.35:1 just to go letterboxed (I mean smaller than 2.35:1) during the opening credits ... and then - just as the Enterprise enters the picture - it goes back to full 2.35:1 again.
     
  4. StewMc

    StewMc Commodore Commodore

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    Do you mean pillerboxed rather than letterboxed? That may be where the confusion lies as the whole of TSFS will be letterboxed due to the aforementioned aspect ratio. Judging by the thumbnails of the screencaps over at TrekCore there does seem to be some pillerboxing going on (harder to see when viewing each shot individually as all the excess black bars are cropped).

    Comparing the DVD and Bluray screenshots however, it looks like possibly there was some horizontal stretching of the picture on the DVD?
     
  5. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I am not familiar with the term "pillerboxed" ... I thought it was "letterboxed", but English is not my native language, so I guess I was wrong.

    There are black bars on both sides during the opening credits, and they are moving aside when the Enterprise enters the picture right after the credits. And it doesn't seem like the picture was stretched on the DVDs, there is actually more picture on both sides. I wonder if the BD represents the original theatrical version (which may or may not have been on the VHS or LD edition), while the DVDs have changed the credits to full width:

    DVD: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfs/ch1/tsfs0025.jpg
    BluRay: http://movies.trekcore.com/gallery/albums/tsfshd/tsfshd0039.jpg
     
  6. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I can't speak for STIII theatrically, but usually when you see pillarboxing on a home format, it's done to avoid the overscan on your TV cutting something important off.

    That's less of a problem these days, but old habits (and transfers) die hard.

    My old UK widescreen VHS of STIII used to inform me that the film featured an actress named AME JUDITH ANDERSO. :)
     
  7. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    No, that's not it. The black bars on the sides slowly move into the picture at the beginning of the opening credits and then they slowly move back after the credits.

    And does it have the black bars on the sides during the opening credits?
     
  8. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    "windowboxing"

    Neil
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I always thought The Search for Spock credit sequence looked incredibly cheap, regardless of format.
     
  10. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Other examples of movies on Blu-ray where opening titles have been Pillarboxed include Grease and seven of the James Bond titles: Thunderball, You Only Live Twice, On Her Majesty's Secret Service, Diamonds Are Forever, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker and The World Is Not Enough. In the case of JB, I'm pretty certain the title sequences were shot in different aspect ratios to the actual films, so, in order to preserve the entirety of the image, pillarboxing was instigated. I assume this is the case for TSFS also - but don't quote me!
     
  11. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    The reason for the 'pillarboxing was because some of the names during the credits (specifiically Dame Judith anderson) reached from nearly side to side in the frame. Because they didn't want (and are legally obliged to not to) cut off anybody's name they used pillarboxing for the credits only.

    In the days of crt tvs there was an overscan issue where they had to be surethe manufacturers built-in overscan didn't cut off the picture.

    In these days of flat screens without overscan (or where the consumer could adjust their TV to avoid overscan) it was a distracting travesty to ruin the credits by doing that. If you read the reviews at the time the Blu-rays came out---many people noted and lamented the use of pillarboxing.

    And it's done in such a clumsy way to boot.

    If we ever get a new set of the movies on Blu-ray--hopefully they won't repeat this defect.
     
  12. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    But, are HD panels in the overwhelming majority at this point? I'm not so sure. This is purely anecdotal, but I know a lot of people who are still using 4:3 CRT sets - although admittedly, none with Blu-ray decks hooked up to them!
     
  13. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    You are right, not that many people are watching HD Blu-rays on SD CRT tvs---that's why what they did was so frustrating. Basically because of one actors long name they 'windowboxed' two or so minutes of footage--Jesus it was 2009 there were multiple ways of making sure that her name fit without so obviously crunching the picture horizontally.
     
  14. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    I don't think that's the reason, though. On the DVDs there is no pillarboxing and there even is some space left on both sides of her name.
     
  15. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    You're confusing two names here. A letterboxed image with black bars on the sides is "windowboxed". A 4x3 image displayed on a 16x9 set will have black bars on the sides. That's "pillarboxed".

    Neil
     
  16. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    You are quite right--they never had that before on VHS, Laserdisc or DVD, but something to do with Blu-ray transfers causes studios to occasionally do that.

    That makes it even more annoying.

    It is clearly ONLY the credits not before or after. The windowboxing begins and ends exactly when the credits do. What other reason to do that than something to do with the credit graphics?

    There was a goof up--somebody thought they needed to do that to save the names from being cut off, but clearly it is NOT needed as what you pointed out is true.
     
  17. Oso Blanco

    Oso Blanco Commodore Commodore

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    So, the credits are not windowboxed on the VHS and LD releases? That's strange ... I thought that maybe - since all BDs are the theatrical versions - that this is the way TSFS had been presented in theaters back then. But then, the VHS would also have the windowboxed credits, wouldn't it?
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Commodore Commodore

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    No, on the 'widesceen' versions on VHS and Laserdisc they did not make this mistake. They waited till the ultimate HD version to blow it.

    If you watch it closely you can actually see them 'zoom out' at the beginning of the credits--revealing a blank area with no stars on the sides and just as the Enterprise appears on screen right you can see them zoom back in--with the picture once again filling the entire screen. awful!
     
  19. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    It's distressing to see "windowboxing" now since HDTVs no longer overscan. It was necessary in the days of standard def and CRTs.
     
  20. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    I remember hearing the clouds being flown through were left over from that same year's RED DAWN. That's pretty cheap all right.