Trek romances - the good, the bad, and the boring?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by DevilEyes, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. Santa Cat

    Santa Cat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Agreed there on Riker and Troi. I was a huge shipper of those two back in the day :). Such a wonderful relationship there.

    Next Generation and Voyager handled romances well in my opinion.

    I think it was decent. Most of anything that had to do with sex and romance was implied for the most part. A good balance there.
     
  2. Rush Limborg

    Rush Limborg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As a general rule, I usually didn't have problems with Trek romances. There are some exceptions, but I'd have to rack my brain to remember some....

    Here are my various thoughts:

    Kira/Odo: Now...I may be in the minority here, but I think it was pretty rewarding to see them come together. There was a lot of build-up, close calls, etc., and...I feel for Odo, in his struggle to do something about his feelings....

    I kinda agree that they "toned it down" a bit too much after they came together. Still...their story in the final episode arc removed any such concers...and their final scene together was excellently written and acted.

    Troi/Riker: Good...when we saw it. For the most part, they're just friends. When we see evidence of romance, though, it's pretty rewarding.

    Jadzia/Worf: Pretty good. I kinda disagree with Nerys here, in that I rarely saw Jadzia actually diss Worf's values or culture. Recall that she actually sees herself as something of a Klingon.... I'd think this is just "poking fun" on her part. And Worf understands this, hence Ezri's line in "Strange Bedfellows", about Worf finding Jadzia's barbs to be "endearing".

    I think they're two of a kind, frankly--or at least, they fit together pretty well. Only a woman like Jadzia could be strong-willed enough to provide an endearing, "invigorating" challenge to Worf--and only a man like Worf could be "warrior" enough to have Jadzia desire to submit to him....

    Keiko/O'Brien: Okay. At first, Keiko's attitude drove me crazy--for the reasons everyone mentioned. She was this close to deserving a brand of "whining JERK!"

    Eventually, though, the writers wised up, and with "Fascination", they finally resolved this (with O'Brien being victorious, and Keiko putting on the dress, and....) and from that point on, their relationship was a WHOLE lot better.

    Kirk/Rand: This one hasn't been brought up, but...I REALLY wish the writers had done something with this. There were so many hints of what MIGHT have been.... *sigh*

    Trip/T'Pol: Opposites attract, in this case. Gotta love the irony--the pair that used to hate each other's guts...eventually get together. They have some nice moments, those two--including in the books....

    Garak/Ziyal: Good to a point. Wish the writers had developed it more--the man of secrets, struggling not to open up to the girl who sees within him something more....

    Worf/Troi: Didn't care for it. There were some nice moments of humor about the possibilities...that was it. Glad it didn't really go anywhere....



    Ezri/Bashir: Probably my all-time favorite. The chemistry here was PERFECT! These two were perfect for each other--they complete each other, in a sense.

    I think the writers did some pretty nice build-up in eps like "Chrysalis", "Protigal Daughter", and "Field of Fire", where the two, in various scenes, basically help each other out, and build each other up when down. And it's well handeled how they finally come together--their intial awkwardness, their joking "agreement" to stay friends--and, of course, their memorable scene in the turbolift....

    I really think, then, that in this case at least, the romantic chemistry DID truly shine. It's a shame their romance was only seen for 1 1/2 episodes....

    (And also a BIG shame that Mike and Andy somehow felt the need to...ah, well.... *sigh*)
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  3. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    [/QUOTE] On a related note- regular butt-bumping without the slipery stuff is conducive to health problems ...[/QUOTE]

    You mean: The Klingon dual azure orbs of agonies?

    Laying aside romance for a moment, the best lover has got to be Data. Come on girls, the guy's a MACHINE!
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2009
  4. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I'm another person who liked Miles and Keiko. They had their ups and downs and got pretty grouchy about things sometimes, but they loved each other and they had a fairly believable adult relationship. I also think Sisko and Kasidy were cool. It was great to see him finally find someone after all the pain he'd been through.
     
  5. Tallis Rhul

    Tallis Rhul Commander Red Shirt

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    I don't quite know where people get this strange idea that Miles and Keiko's relationship was abusive from. If you think that's abusive then God help you should you ever end up in a truly abusive relationship. She doesn't actually whine that much, she puts up with an inconvenient and sometimes dangerous atmosphere to support Miles and bring up her family, and when she arrives on DS9 there is absolutely bugger all for her to do, other than try to make a go of running a school for a load of kids who really don't want to be there.

    She did make the decision, granted, but she did it as a concession for Miles because it was a promotion. She tried to stick with it and not say anything until in the end it became too much and it caused tension. Just like it would do in real life. And let me ask this question, for an abusive relationship, how stormy were things in season 7? They weren't. They were pretty peachy, despite Miles being on the front line all the time.

    If you doubt her intentions towards him then watch Armageddon Game. She's beside herself when she thinks something's happened to him, and that wasn't the only time.
     
  6. Whoa Nellie

    Whoa Nellie Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've always seen the Picard/Vash relationship, wonderfully written by Ira Steven Behr, as an homage to the great romantic film pairings of the 40's. The very compelling 'battle of wills' dynamic to the Picard/Vash relationship is reminiscent of Bogart and Bacall in the classic movie "To Have and Have Not." Vash is Bacall to Picard's Bogart. Vash's brazenness complements Picard's more sedate personality perfectly. She is the ideal foil for Picard's straight man. The characterizations and relationship dynamics between Picard and Vash makes this pairing a pure joy to watch.

    [​IMG]

    Warmest Wishes,
    Whoa Nellie
     
  7. PSGarak

    PSGarak Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    For the record, I didn't say Keiko was abusive of Miles. I said she communicated disrespectfully, and she did. I've been in and still am in a long-term relationship, and I can tell you if my spouse talked to me that way on a regular basis or vice versa, we would not still be married. Apparently, Miles is a lot more tolerant than I am.
     
  8. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. PSGarak

    PSGarak Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, no, not at all. I love the Dune series, too. Herbert, and his son in carrying on the series in later books and prequels, created a thoroughly loathsome villain in the Baron. They didn't use his being a homosexual as shorthand for "evil" or "twisted". It was an incidental detail about the character that wasn't given primary focus or play.

    I don't automatically find making a villain gay or bisexual offensive. I find it offensive if that's the primary way the writers try to use to drive that point home, and there are way too many examples out there where they do just that.
     
  10. Rush Limborg

    Rush Limborg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^I agree. To use homosexuality as "proof" of evil just isn't cool. (Regardless of my social-political views--and you all know them by now--still, such bashing is, quite frankly, intolerable. And I'm far from the only right-winger who feels that way....)

    To use it as a characteristic (i.e. a matter of happenstance), is perfectly fine--as was the case with Intendant Kira. There, it was just an example of "she recognizes no limits for herself", or something like that.
     
  11. PSGarak

    PSGarak Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Also, with MU Kira's attraction to the regular Kira, it came across to me as a hugely narcissistic thing far more than a gay thing. I got the sense from MU Kira that the very pinnacle of a turn on would be to have sex with herself, which was sort of how she viewed Kira, an ego extension rather than a separate person.
     
  12. Whodey30

    Whodey30 Cadet Newbie

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    First of all, lets keep in mind that TNG was in the early 90's. Sex on TV was still basically limited to late night shows, certainly not Prime Time TV. Second, they did a great job of slipping in inuendo into most everything that Riker did!! Remember the episode where he and Ro got it on because no one remembered anyone else? Any of Troi's relationships were lame, but Paris/Torres was funny because it reminds me of most people that I know. Seven of Nine was crazy hot in those skin tight suits, and T'Pol in Enterprise was fully naked in at least three episodes. Star Trek is not necessarily a series for overt sexuality. Maybe it could have been addressed more, but by this point, we are all accustomed to the way it is and too much sex seems weird. IE Enterprise. Some of the attempts they made seemed uncomfortable becuase I am not used to seeing that in a Star Trek epsiode.
     
  13. Mareika

    Mareika Captain Captain

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    The best romance for me is the one and only relationsship between Janeway and Chakotay- J/C for ever! :drool:

    I didn`t like the Worf/Troi romance.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2009
  14. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Fan fiction doesn't count. :D
     
  15. DevilEyes

    DevilEyes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    It was heavily ship-teased in the show, so it's not like the fans made it up or that it belongs just to fan fiction. The majority of fans seem to be prefer Janeway/Chakotay to Seven/Chakotay , which brings up the question, are Star Trek writers sometimes so clueless that they pick unconvincing or otherwise bad pairings over those that had more chemistry and could have worked better?
     
  16. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What I find interesting is that in three out of five Star Trek shows a lot of fans wanted to see the captain and the first officer get together (TOS, VOY, ENT). What's with that?
     
  17. Anika Hanson

    Anika Hanson Captain Captain

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    The good:
    Worf/Jadzia
    Paris/Torres
    Picard/Vash
    T'pol/Trip

    The bad:
    Kes and nelix
    Seven/Chakotay
    Kira/Odo

    The Boring:
    Troi/Riker
    Sisco/Cassidy
     
  18. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Since when. Both fan fiction and pro fiction are the best trek we're getting right now. And don't throw that canon-crap at me. Want true charactor development? It's not on the screen, same with detailed plots, believeable villians and new players. The fan produced videos, while not there yet, are getting better.

    Fan fiction IS star trek.
     
  19. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Have I just been accused of being a canonista? :lol:
    Don't worry T'Girl, to me, "canon" is just a word.

    To those 0.05% of trekkers who actually read it.
     
  20. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Bad: Riker with, well, anyone. Does he really have to try and shove his teeth through a closed mouth whenever he kisses a poor lady? Talk about pressing too hard.