Trek II ~ Khan's Wife

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Keith1701, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    An interesting idea, although it comes perilously close to exploitation. Perhaps Bennett and Meyer didn't feel comfortable casting Rhue under the circumstances. It's also possible that she was too ill to participate, so her inclusion would not have been possible regardless of the circumstances.

    --Sran
     
  2. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Okay. No one who matters would notice.

    It's also important to point out that it's never been specifically stated on screen that Khan's "beloved wife" even was McGivers. That line was cut from the film when they couldn't use Rhue, anyway.

    Either way, since were likely talking about what would have been a flashback, people would either, not even know who she is, not be able to tell the difference, or not really care.

    The number of people this it would've mattered to is way too insignificant to even worry about.
     
  3. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    That's correct; however, it's hard to imagine who else it could have been. There were other women of child-bearing age in Khan's party, but none were shown to have a romantic interest in him.

    --Sran
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The "beloved wife" line wasn't cut. It was in the film.
     
  5. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    No the part where Khan says something like "McGivers = beloved wife" was cut.

    "Beloved wife" by itself is completely nondescript.
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He seemed friendly enough with Kati.

    In any event, it was a short show. It's not at all hard to imagine that there were women among Khan's followers that would have had a romantic interest in him, simply because it wasn't shown in the few minutes we saw a couple of them.
     
  7. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Correct. The novelization mentions her by name, but the line in the film is more ambiguous.

    --Sran
     
  8. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    That's a good point, Admiral. And as Khan and his followers believed themselves superior to everyone else, it's possible that they disregarded traditional marriage practices. Khan may have had multiple wives or consorts during his exile.

    --Sran
     
  9. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, she was playing the role of Daphne DiMera in "Days of Our Lives" around that time, both before and after her need for a wheelchair.
     
  10. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting. I didn't realize she'd starred in Days of Our Lives.

    --Sran
     
  11. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    If you think about it, having her in the wheelchair instead of dead works into the story better, especially if they exaggerated how crippled she was.

    "I shall leave you as you've left her..." if you will.
     
  12. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    It also works well given that Khan crippled the Enterprise, the leading lady in Kirk's life.

    --Sran
     
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Yup.

    Also, the obvious homage to "The Menagerie."
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The difference is this: Just because Starfleet officers have power, doesn't mean they lust after it. Yet that is exactly what Augments like Khan do. They don't just have power, they don't just want power, they CRAVE power. It's ALL they want. It's what they were, quite literally, designed to want. They can't NOT want it.

    Conversely, you can have power but not love it. Starfleet officers have power because, well, they sort of have it by default. It's inherent in the command structure. Everyone in Starfleet has power if they last long enough. But to LOVE power is to care about nothing but oneself, and that of course precludes all considerations of love or compassion - both of which are all about concern for others.

    They can be if they were designed to be. Remember, everything about Augments is genetically engineered and planned.

    Could be, could be. The Augments are like the Nietzscheans from Andromeda, really. In both cases - the Nietzscheans even more explicitly - everything about their lives is dedicated to the love of oneself, the accumulation of power for one's self. Compassion, true caring for others, is literally an alien concept to them (one only has to read Nietzsche himself to realize that). The Nietzscheans, for example, care about family structure and marriage only so far as it ensures the continuation of their genetic line. They don't truly love their partners; they only have them because it makes more Nietzscheans. Same story here, really.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2013
  15. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Khan may have been without compassion, but I don't think he was designed that way, not on purpose. Genetic enhancement was intended to improve the human race. The supermen spawned from it were an accident, Khan included. The scientists responsible realized too late the severity of their mistake. Genetic engineering was eventually outlawed in the Federation to prevent men like Khan from coming into existence.

    --Sran
     
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Wheelchair on a desert planet. Cruel.
     
  17. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    That line was shot, though. It wasn't cut until post-production.
     
  18. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

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    History is full of powerful and ambitious people who passionately loved and cared for their spouses or lovers. What about Napoleon and Josephine?

    I guess I must have missed the scene where it was said that Khan's blood had the magical power to heal the sick and/or raise the dead.

    All of which, while certainly plausible, is a retcon. Even calling Khan and his followers "Augments" is a retcon. In "Space Seed," no mention was made of genetic engineering or enhancement; the "supermen" in artificial hibernation aboard the Botany Bay were the product of simple eugenics. All that Augment stuff came way later.
     
  19. Trek Survivor

    Trek Survivor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Can't believe so many people think it would've been good to have his wife in the film.

    Her death was a huge contributing factor to his thirst for revenge. A lot of that would've been swept away had she popped up waving at her former captain.
     
  20. E-DUB

    E-DUB Captain Captain

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    Zero chance the wife was anybody but Lt. McGivers. Otherwise Khan wouldn't have been wearing a starfleet delta as a necklace. "Well, dear. It's a present from an ex-girlfriend."
     

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