Trek.com's "Finale" poll

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ichab, Jul 30, 2013.

  1. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Really, both AGT and Nemesis should be considered as finales for TNG. A finale has evolved as a genre of presentation; it is not simply the last of something. All Good Things is clearly the finale as a series. Nemesis is the finale as a a film franchise, although I think there was some ambivalence about actually designating this as the end.
     
  2. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's an interesting dilemma. What would you rate as being the worst finale, Nemesis or These Are The Voyages?
     
  3. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Interesting question. Nemesis is infinitely more satisfying to watch, but TATV is more assured in its purpose. That's not saying much: TATV is a jumble of plots, and the holodeck does minimize and trivialize the events the program purports to represent. Nonetheless, the purpose of ENT was to bring the narrative of Star Trek to a defining moment, the foundation of the Federation, a common point for all Star Trek series. And technically, it achieves it.

    Nemesis has aspects of a finale, but it seems to be hedging its bets. Worf's development from DS9 is almost undone. Crusher and LaForge don't seem to be figuratively going anywhere. Riker gets a promotion that will take place off screen (at least we got to see Sulu in command). Troi gets to be the captain's wife, hardly a major character development. The toast to Data was touching, but it felt like it was undone in the next seen with B-4. Surely, no one at Paramount wanted to admit that they had gone to the trough to many times, but the resolution of the film makes it seem that other films (perhaps in different configurations) would be possible under the right conditions (the box office receipts that never materialized).
     
  4. CaptPapa

    CaptPapa Commander Red Shirt

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    I really do not know . . .
    In my opinion, The Undiscovered Country is what must be considered the TOS finale. And as such, I think it's overrated - too bad they let Nicholas Meyer make a Star Trek film without proper supervision.
     
  5. USS Firefly

    USS Firefly Commander Red Shirt

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    For me DS9 has the best ending
    2 TNG
    3 TOS
    4 VOY
    5 ENT
     
  6. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Personally I think the Undiscovered Country should count as the TOS finale.

    The Turnabout Intruder wasn't a true finale, just another episode that happened to be the last one.

    And while movie VI isn't a true series finale in the truest sense of the word since it is a movie, many series finale are movie length. It was also a true ending for the TOS cast.
     
  7. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    TATV simply because it disappointed me the most. After Manny Coto took over the reigns for the last season I was really enjoying Enterprise. Finally the show was in a direction that I thought it always should have been. Then Braga decides to do his "valentine" and we get a ridiculous episode where two actors try to shoehorn themselves into an old TNG episode and it just didn't work. Take Riker,Troi and the holodeck out of the episode and it's at least passable. A finale should focus on the cast that we've come to know, not on guest stars.

    Nemesis really didn't bother me as much as it did the fans. I would have preferred Picard's Nemesis to be a Romulan or maybe even a Reman,but Hardy did a good job with his role.
     
  8. Rush Limborg

    Rush Limborg Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but...doesn't "All Our Yesterdays" have a "later" stardate than "Turnabout Intruder?"

    (Interesting note--when I first got the three seasons of TOS on DVD, I'd made it a point to watch them all in order of stardate. It actually held up pretty well, really. :))

    This...except Terra Prime kinda has a downer of a final scene, right? Perhaps with a more "uplifting" epilogue...?

    Anyway--rankings; well, let's see...as finales, not necessarily as episodes unto themselves....

    "What You Leave Behind"--full stop. It was a true "closure" to the series.

    This may seem odd, but--I'd actually put VGR and TOS ahead of "All Good Things" (but not by much--practically a three-way tie). Say what you will about it..."Endgame" was a conclusion to the main conflict of the show--getting home. I would have loved the mains having a final scene together, talking about what they'll do next, remembering Kes and, yes, Neelix...and perhaps Janeway toasting them (with coffee, of course), and the future. Still...can't have it all, can you?

    "All Our Yesterdays", for the reason Lance noted--but with a caveat similar to my thoughts for "Endgame": I'd have loved, when Kirk, Spock, and McCoy are reunited, have an emphasized moment where our trio note how it's good to be back--all three of them. In many ways, our trio were the emotional "backbone" of the series--and it would've been great to have them acknowledge their deep friendship, once more.

    "All Good Things" has a nice bookend with the big-time references to "Encounter At Farpoint" (and a look at a possible future)...but did it really provide much of an emotional "wrap-up" for the series? Um...not really. Except maybe between Q and Picard. I mean--I love poker! But...was that final game REALLY much of a wrap-up? Um....

    What I remember of "Demons" and "Terra Prime" (it's been a while)--it's a great finale in the sense of its BIG "This is how the seeds of what would become the UFP were sown." Still, a good finale, as I noted above, must have emotional closure for the characters, too. I...don't recall much, there. Apparently, all the emotional stuff was reserved for TATV.

    As for that one...well, wasn't a finale at all, really--felt like a Very Special Crossover Episode that frankly belonged mid-season...or maybe as a "special" TV movie, SEPERATE from the series. That being said, I LOVED-LOVED-LOVED the final montage...but I'd have loved it even more if they'd have worked in DS9 and VGR, too.
     
  9. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    I would have voted for "What You Leave Behind".
     
  10. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    All Good Things winning is not surprising, but Endgame coming in second is a surprise. Endgame over What You Leave Behind, really?

    Sure it's way better than Turnabout Intruder or These Are The Voyages, but it seemed more like they crammed the major themes of season 4-7 into an episode in an uninspired way than actually concluded the series.
     
  11. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    It just goes to show you that VOY might be more popular than DS9 with casual audiences.
     
  12. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Or that What You Leave Behind is a painfully dull episode. :techman:
     
  13. 1001001

    1001001 Let the Good Times Roll!! Moderator

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    Or both.

    :techman:
     
  14. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    You can change around a few scenes in "Terra Prime" and have the episod end on Arhcers speech about exploring it together.
     
  15. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    Rating the real endings:

    WYLB/STVI tie - STVI would have won, but then "Guess who's coming to dinner..." isn't as funny as I remembered it.
    Terra Prime - About as good an ending as Enterprise would have gotten, considering the circumstances.
    Nemesis - just dumb in every way possible.
    Endgame - haven't actually seen it yet, but I know what happens, and it's bad. Maybe there's some stuff there that could bump it up above NEM though - wouldn't be hard.

    AGT was a good episode. I think. I haven't seen it since it first aired, but my seven-year-old self was quite impressed.

    TATV isn't something that I can completely ignore, because it had Shran in it being awesome as usual (even if the situation was dumb, and led to even dumber stuff).
     
  16. Chensams

    Chensams Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think that All Good Things was by far the best finale. TOS shouldn't even count. Endgame was good and had the best battles of a finale. I REALLY wanted to love DS9s finale but the whole Pah Wraith subpot was TERRIBLE!!! I just rewatched the entire series and finished it last week. It wraps up most of the plot lines but was derailed with the whole Dukat/Winn subplot.

    For what it's worth, I watched TNG during the original run and was hoping they would end with them playing poker. Appropriate ending.
     
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Why all the concern? Eliminating those who mention neither finale, 70% seem to approve of WYLB over Endame.
     
  18. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    I think it would have worked better to see the way they originally got home all those years later. Maybe the show runners were under the false impression that this cast was going to the big screen but it never happened and it felt cheap for future Janeway to go back in time and change the way it was suppose to happen.
     
  19. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Endgame over WYLB? Even some of Voyager's cast were 'meh' about it.

    They start off the episode by revealing Voyager already made it back to the AQ. And simply end it with them being surrounded by ships just after they reached the AQ.

    One problem I had with Endgame is the time traveling. Overdone by the time Voyager started .

    And then Voyager really overdid it. Cant count how many time travel episodes it aired. There's no longer anything fascinating about it on Trek.

    Hell, Janeway simply borrows a time travel device and goes back.

    WYLB had some pretty good action, but I'll admit the Pah Wraith, good versus evil plot was silly.

    AGT kept it simple, a little too much technobabble, but a nice simple episode.
     
  20. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    And now that I've actually watched it, I will bump "Endgame" above Nemesis. That was actually a good episode, as least as far as VOY goes. It did go downhill after Harry made his speech, and Chuckles/Seven was weird, at best (but at least Beltran decided to act in the last episode), but overall way above VOY's average. I thought the ending was good enough - I don't think I could stomach any actual celebrations from that show, and it worked well enough on its own anyways.