Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by WarpFactorZ, May 19, 2013.
Row, row, row your boat...
ST3: Sabotaged by Scotty. Not representative of the class.
ST6: Survived the Chang fight with no significant damage (unlike the Enterprise). Performed well here.
DS9: Outclassed by 80 years of technical innovation. Not fair to hold against the class at its debut.
So, the only instance we see the Excelsior-class at its peak, it outperforms the Constitution class. Sounds a lot like the Vengeance to me.
Sounds like a high pitched prop plane doing a nose dive, but that's pretty close.
How did it 'perform well'? It got shot at only once with no visible damage, and only because the studio couldn't afford to damage the Excelsior model as it had to be reused for various episodes of TNG.
The Excelsior got hit once and sat there like an oyster, until the Enterprise fired the tracking torpedo at the BoP.
In VOY:Flashbacks, the Excelsior got torpedoed by old Klingon cruisers, couldn't do nothing to fight back and barely escaped.
That episode featured a bit of a fanwanked Excelsior class ship with retrofitted upgrades and it still nearly got wiped out by something of an oversized shuttle craft. It was only the reluctance of the Defiant crew that allowed the Lakota to live.
Also how about the various Excelsiors that blew up, got shot to peices in other DS9 battles?
I think you must be seeing a different Star Trek to me then, because from the examples above and in ST3, whenever it was next to the Enterprise it broke down or just sat still.
The Vengeance from the get go was all business, the only reason why it ended up trashed because it made the universal fatal mistake of attacking the Enterprise with Kirk in command!
I'm going to recant on my original post. On second viewing, I heard Carol Marcus say "advanced warp drive." So, no direct mention of transwarp. But one could make the connection that "advanced" warp = "trans"warp.
I don't know. Advanced warp drive, plus the aforementioned STIII reference in catching a ship at warp sounds like Transwarp to me.
Ultimately, so did the Vengeance.
Actually, it made the same mistake that Excelsior made: never chase the Enterprise when Scotty's been in your engine room.
She didn't say anything like that. Her exact words were: "He's been designing a ship with Mark-Four capabilities, including--" but she never finishes because the Vengeance shows up right about them.
She probably means "Mark Four WARP capabilities," which might imply a "transwarp propulsion units, Mark-IV." Given that the older ships in the fleet might have been retrofitted to the Mk-II (Mk-I being a prototype that entered service WAY earlier than expected) Enterprise would be the Mk-III.
I distinctly remember her saying something about advanced warp capabilities, Eddie. Maybe someone here can confirm.
I do, too. Not sure of the exact line, but I definitely remembering hearing something about an advanced warp drive.
Yes, she talks about an advanced warp drive
I love how many posters say "exact words" and then follow up with something entirely not what the character said.
Going from memory again, YMMV:
Carol: "He's going to catch up to us and when he does the only thing that's gonna stop him destroying this ship is me so you'd better let me talk to him!"
Kirk: "Relax, we're at warp, he can't catch us."
Carol: "Yes he can! He's been designing a ship with Mark Four capabilities including--"
Sulu: "Captain... I'm getting a reading here I don't understand..."
Could be another scene I don't recall where someone mentions an advanced warp drive, but I can't imagine what it would be. Khan later mentions that the Vengeance has "twice the size, three times the speed" but that's it (his comment "If you think you're safe at warp, you're wrong" is what sent Carol running in the first place).
When else would Carol have mentioned an advanced warp drive?
Definitely not. I first though Carol Marcus said:
Carol: "Yes he can! He's been designing a ship with transwarp capabilities including--"
but when I saw it the second time, I heard
Carol: "Yes he can! He's been designing a ship with advanced warp capabilities including--"
The audience isn't going to understand "Mark four capabilities" (I don't even know what that means), so why would they choose to include distracting technobabble and make people miss the point?
Yep, this is what I heard.
Same here. "Advanced warp", not "transwarp".
Well, I'll check the scene again when next I see the movie (off work next week so I'll have a chance then).
Curiously, though, I had a lot of trouble figuring out what she was saying because "Mark four capabilities" didn't make any sense either time I saw the movie. That is, however, exactly what she says in the novelization. "Mark four capabilities." Maybe they changed it in the shooting script at the last minute, but I am 99% confident that's the line in the movie too.
How much are you willing to bet on it, then ?
Separate names with a comma.