TP: Rough Beasts of Empire by DRGIII Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Thrawn, Dec 22, 2010.

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Rate Rough Beasts Of Empire

  1. Outstanding

    38 vote(s)
    26.2%
  2. Above Average

    60 vote(s)
    41.4%
  3. Average

    25 vote(s)
    17.2%
  4. Below Average

    13 vote(s)
    9.0%
  5. Poor

    9 vote(s)
    6.2%
  1. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    ^Exactly. We just had the jump, we need to give the story time to establish the new status quo before we go back. It took BSG nine episodes, and Lost an entire season before the we got the story behind what happened prior to the time jump. Ok, Lost gave us bits of it as we went through the season, but it still took the whole season to learn the whole story.
     
  2. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    I just think it should have happened first. I think it makes for better storytelling
     
  3. Thrawn

    Thrawn Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    ^ Fair enough, but even without the unique editorial pressures on the DS9 novel line, the examples JD gave have to be enough to show that a time jump, with time later to fill in the backstory, is a completely legitimate storytelling choice. Hell, even in Trek novels, New Frontier did that just to shake things up.
     
  4. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    I hold out hope since ds9 is my favorite of all the series but this start does not give me much to go on
     
  5. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    I just realized something else. We still haven't gotten a DS9 novel, so really we don't even know what the DS9 series is going to be. Really, until that happens we can't judge the series. All we've gotten is basically a preview of what the character are up to.
     
  6. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Well we use to have a good idea where it was going until it was abandoned for arbitrary reasons. So now we are left with characters who feel false
     
  7. kkozoriz1

    kkozoriz1 Fleet Captain

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    And it's been eight years since the Ascendants story started and now we have to wait for the new status quo to be established and hope that the whole Ascendants storyline won't be dealt with in an offhand comment or a short story in an anthology.

    It's like watching a TV show where a murder takes place. For the entire season we see the investigation. Evidence uncovered. Red herrings followed and disproven. When we get to the season finale we hear "And the murderer is..."

    The next season open in a redecorated office, most of the cast has changed and in the middle of the episode says "I still can't believe Bob was the killer.' and then they continue on in a totally unrelated story. It's a cheat.
     
  8. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Thanks, David. I imagine I'll find the answer to #1 either in RBoE or a subsequent book, but thanks for answering #2, pardner.
     
  9. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Is there any particular reason to think we're are going to see how those characters progressed to the points they are at now in future books?
     
  10. Sci

    Sci Admiral Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Well, the fact that the authors really seem to enjoy using flashbacks as a narrative device comes to mind. As does the possibility that the authors may want to tell those stories for the same reason readers want to read them. :)
     
  11. David R. George III

    David R. George III Writer Fleet Captain

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Yes, sorry, I'd intended to respond. I actually did not name Orr; the character was mentioned in the Deep Space Nine episode "Paradise Lost."

    Thanks for characterizing my work as "ridiculous." You're too kind.

    Again, I have no problem with people disliking, even hating, my work (though I don't care for insults much). But you apparently object to the time jump, but where did Sisko jump from? Last we saw him, he was living a quiet life on Bajor. I pick him up aboard New York during the Borg invasion. Did you really need to see the meeting where he was asked to re-up to defend the Federation from slaughter? I preferred simply to begin in the middle of action, as opposed to in the middle of a conversation. You also say that you never got to see how his motivations progressed. Except that I began in a brutal invasion of the Federation, I showed
    Vaughn's crippling brain injury, I dealt with Joseph Sisko's death, and the warning issued to Sisko by the Prophets occurred within the series itself. And within the series, not only did we see Sisko react several times to what the Prophets told him--he stops Bajor from joining the Federation based on their say-so--but we also see him abandon Kasidy Yates and his friends because he thought he had failed as a Starfleet officer and as the Emissary, and because he thought he needed to figure out what to do next. And when he left, the character didn't even know if he would ever return to DS9 and Bajor.
    Did I show every contributing factor? No, because I determined just how much I needed to show without hitting the same point too many times.

    What happened to cause the loss of New York's captain does not appear in Rough Beasts of Empire, nor has it been seen anywhere else.

    I think I'm about done reading and posting here. I don't ever have any issue when people don't like my work, but the negativity and dichotomous personality of the board is just becoming incredibly tiresome. Posters here clamor for the Deep Space Nine story line to be brought "up to date" with the "current" literary Trek timeline, and then when it happens, other posters denounce the move. I didn't make the decision to jump forward in time, but it's a perfectly legitimate storytelling device. I understand the frustration with losing the thread of the Ascendants plot--I'd like to read the denouement of that particular tale myself, not to mention that I'd like to write it--but that doesn't mean other stories can't be read and enjoyed, or despised, on their own merits.
     
  12. Enterpriserules

    Enterpriserules Commodore Commodore

    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    David I want you to know I am a huge fan of yours. I have always enjoyed your trek books. You are working with what you have and have been asked to jump the story foward, you did the best you could and I hope it works out because I really love ds9. My main complaint is where ds9's story line is now and that the series seems stalled and most of the characters are all in completely different places. I hope they come back together because it is my favorite crew.

    I was taking your book on it's own merits as well as in conjunction with the larger ds9 narrative. I just wasn't thrilled with it as I have been with your other works
     
  13. jhempel24

    jhempel24 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Well said David.

    As someone whos only read the first 3 DS9 relaunch, I thought it summed some things up nicely. Of course now Im going back to read them now, but this book worked. And I enjoy rhings being left open to interpretation and having to use my brain to try and tidy things up. And who knows this could be a great starting point for another book.

    Thanks for the great works!
     
  14. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    David, I've enjoyed your postings on this board. I'm sure many more people have likewise enjoyed them than those who differ with you...and you can't please everyone. Don't let the naysaying asshats run you off.

    I began leafing through RBoE to relax before I had to get some sleep for working a night shift and instead I ended up reading your book for a half-hour. My question about Sisko was meant to satisfy my curiosity jones until I could get around to finishing your book, as I am reading the Typhon Pact mini in the order in which they're being published (yeah, I know timeline-wise it isn't a big deal to read them "in order", but that's the way I roll). I didn't know if that answer would be in the book or a subsequent, and in no way did I intend you to take it as a negative, if indeed you interpreted it in that fashion. For me, I apologize for any misunderstandings on my part.
     
  15. David R. George III

    David R. George III Writer Fleet Captain

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    ^ No, I didn't take your question as negative. No need for an apology.
     
  16. BrotherBenny

    BrotherBenny Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    David, I second other posters when they ask you not to leave. Remember KRAD's comment, "don't mistake a few fans bitching on the internet as any kind of trend" or something to that effect.

    I was unhappy with the time for the sole reason that due to the number of slots available I figured it would take a while to learn what happened. I think RBoE was good, not my favorite of the series, but still a damned good book. Bit short though ;)

    I eagerly await your next book, and ask once again that you continue to post here. It is a rare thing that we mere mortals get to hobnob with the Gods of Trek Lit.
     
  17. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    I don't really have anything useful to say; I just want to offer the exact quote (which even I don't have memorized, so that might be it) via my sig. ;)
     
  18. flemm

    flemm Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    People disagree about stuff. It is hardly surprising or objectionable that some posters might clamor for the DS9 story to be brought up to date, as you say, and that others might be displeased with this occurence or with how it was handled.

    There are certainly occasions when posters on the internet are seemingly negative just for the sake of being negative, but I don't see that this has largely been the case in this thread. Many of the reactions have been positive, and most of the negative ones provide a fairly detailed reasoning or point of view that is not limited to gratuitous bashing. Mostly it is clear from the posts that readers care a lot about what happens to these characters and thus have strong opinions about it.

    Many of the reactions, both positive and negative, that have been posted here have indeed considered the story on its own merits, or have at least attempted to do so, though there is no reason why reacting to the story's place in the overall DS9 saga should be off limits.

    So I really don't think that anything objectionable has been posted here, though I certainly understand the desire to take a break from the forums as they can be very frustrating in heavy doses, as is the case with any such forum. I only post here intermittently myself.
     
  19. David R. George III

    David R. George III Writer Fleet Captain

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    Really? I hadn't thought of that.


    Everybody, I realize now that I probably shouldn't have posted anything at all about deciding to stop posting here; it would no doubt have been better simply to do it. My reasons have absolutely nothing to do with people liking or disliking, loving or hating, my work. (In fact, the overall reaction to my latest novel has been overwhelmingly positive.) Yes, it is wearying when some readers claim some character wouldn't take a certain action, when we actually saw that character take such an action in the show itself. And it can be tiring to deal with readers (offering both positive and negative commentaries) who have short memories and/or poor reading comprehension. The thing is, I learned a long time ago not to take criticism personally (though words such as absurd and ridiculous can be momentarily insulting). I'm confident of my abilities, I consistently challenge myself, and I always seek to improve at my craft.

    What this is about is what seems to me to be the increasing negativity and combativeness in the Trek Literature threads. I come here to enjoy myself, to interact not just with readers, but with fellow readers and fans. Lately, though, I'm not enjoying myself here. It's not just within this thread, and not just about reaction to my work. In fact, it's largely not related to this thread or to my work; I just happened to hit my breaking point here. I suppose that I could place certain posters on Ignore, but being a writer, I don't feel like I should visit a place where I can interact with readers and then choose to avoid some. (I must admit to having one person on Ignore for years now, so I don't have to read their posts, but that was after a long and repeated pattern of personal, though probably ignorant, indignities--against not just me, but numerous other posters as well.)

    Anyway, if people want to contact me, they can surely find my e-mail address. I also have a Facebook page for my writing, where at least I can control the level of discourse. Perhaps after a few days off, I'll reconsider and return to TrekBBS; perhaps it'll take a few weeks or months. I don't know. But I do appreciate all the people here who have made me feel welcome and even appreciated, and I am grateful to all of those readers who felt compelled to argue the merits of my work, whether it was to their liking or not.

    Peace and long life.
     
  20. SicOne

    SicOne Commodore Commodore

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    Re: Typhon Pact: Rough Beasts Of Empire review thread

    ^ Hope to see you back if/when you're ready. It's always good to see detailed participation from the Trek writers...but I think I can speak for many of us when I saw we can certainly understand when the Trek BBS is just one more thing taking time and energy out of your already-busy day. Clear skies, pardner, and don't let the bastards keep you down.