TOS-Remastered: a waste of time

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by King Daniel Beyond, Dec 14, 2009.

  1. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Some episodes work so much better with the new effects, but only those which relied on them for the story. There aren't many of those, but mostly Doomsday Machine, Tomorrow is Yesterday (the slingshot effect and 1701 in the atmosphere re-done shots are ejaculatingly good), and any episode with space combat or globs of light instead of a model. Episodes where the only effects are the Enterprise beauty shots, those don't really benefit. Bad matte paintings are nicely replaced and so on.

    But sometimes the new shows don't capture the same energy and rhythm, even when the original show used yet another stock shot of the Enterprise turning left. To have a sped up stock shot replaced by a slower, lumbering CGI shot may be technically superior, but it sucks the energy out of the scene for me (just me, mind you).

    I agree, in HD, the change from the live action shots to the original effects can be jarring, especially some of the weaker shots. But it's also jarring going from the same live action footage to many of the super-duper sharp and clean CGI. It's actually less of a contrast on a smaller, tube set. The difference in medium is pretty evident, but the work is mosty quite good. The Enterprise Incident is fantastic. Actually, it's not so much the CGI itself as the composition or re-composition of some shots. Elaan of Troyius was a cut and past job in the 60's, but it was well edited and pretty damned good (and showed off the clearest first generation Klingon D-7 effects shorts). The CGI renderings are not as crisply edited and lost (again) energy. The matte shots, like Flint's castle, are just too freaking "Naboo" to me and far outside what seems right for the show. Good effects are one thing, but to switch from crappy soundstage planet cyclorama to a super-crisp CGI building is just as distracting as using the Rigel 7 painting again.

    I said this in another thread, but I'm good with fixing the model shots, the ship effects. But when they alter the live action to a great degree, I really don't like it. The scene of Kirk, Spock, and two security guys firing in the corridor during "Wink of an Eye" is a good example of going overboard. The original scene went: firing phasters into camera, screen fills with green dancing energy; shot of Scalosian machine (dancing energy overlay); back to the guys as the phasers cut off. The point of the scene is to stun anyone in the corridor, because Scalosian weapons were fired at the guards. The enhanced version has them start firing, individual beams come out; still picture is shown with the arms of each person manipulated to look like they're moving them around as the beams hit a FORCE FIELD, and this goes on until the beams cut off. I can see they wanted to do something to get rid of the clip of the machine, since it's in the next room and is misplaced. But the problem is, they weren't being held back by a force field, the Scalosians fired weapons. Kirk and co. were doing a wide-field stun, but it doesn't come across. So, in this case (one of a few in the enhanced series), they misunderstood the point of the shot and created a discrepancy. And the effect looks more laughable than a misplaced clip of the next room. Thing like this keep me from embracing the effort wholeheartedly. I wind up appreciating individual episodes instead of the enhancement of the series as a whole.

    I would have loved to just have them "fix" the shots; making them look as close to the 60's shots as possible, just able to stand up to the digital displays. Just spruce everything up, like the Hoth snow battle in Empire Strikes Back.

    However, I'm thrilled they kept both versions for the Blu-Rays

    I might just be more forgiving than most people, but while I've always acknowledged the wonky AMT kit was pretty poor, it never pulled me out of the episode. Even as a kid. I knew that was the best they could do. All my life (I'm 42), never had an issue with the effects, even when I upgraded to a 52 inch HDTV.

    So, while I appreciate some of the enhancements, particularly on TDM, I always enjoy watching the old effects. I often watch old PRINTS of the show, and I almost always watch the Blu-Rays with the mono sound - even the enhanced episodes. While I like many of the new effects, but I can't stand the new sound effects and music screw ups. Personally, I prefer any version that gets me as close to the original episode broadcasts as possible. This is why I'll always have my VHS and laserdisc sets and at least one crappy, 30 year old tube TV set in my house.
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    We should insist that the technology should not be allowed to advance?
     
  3. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    We should insist that players for past formats remain available at a reasonable cost, forever.

    I have thousands of dollars worth of Laserdiscs. I'm on my third player, this one a rebuild of an 80s model from a specialty place. How long will I be able to get replacement players? How should I feel about spending over $100 each for Critereon Collection discs of my favorite films, only to have the format die?

    When my last Beta player died, and I couldn't find a new one anywhere because they were no longer manufactured, I threw away over 300 tapes of favorite TV episodes (some that still aren't available on DVD) and movies.

    Having purchased some films on Beta, VHS, Laserdisc, and DVD, am I supposed to feel excited that they're now available on yet another new format? Or should I be slamming my head against a brick wall in frustration, like I'm tempted to do?

    When the next post-DVD, Post-Blu-Ray format comes out (no doubt something along the line of datasticks with no moving parts, or direct-downloads), and manufacturers stop making Blu-Ray players, how should we feel?

    And please don't say something techno-elitist like "all you have to do is transfer stuff to the new format." Who the hell has the time to do something like that with a huge coillection? Hell, we still have "regular-8mm" family films from the 40s and 50s that we haven't gotten around to putting on VHS yet! Not to mention tape-sync-sound super-8 films from the 70s that can never be transferred because it was a fleeting format that didn't last, and the equipment can't be found any more.

    Hey, now, there's a format cascade: home movies! Let's see, we've had (just in our family) 16mm, 8mm, super-8, super-8 tape-sync sound, super-8 mag-stripe sound (50ft and 400ft), Portable Beta with separate camera, portable VHS with separate camera, and finally VHS-C. I managed to skip the DVD cams 'cause I couldn't afford them, and now they're obsolete too. Now I'm looking at VHS-C being unavailable and probably having to buy a digital camcorder that takes SDD or flash cards - which is very cool, but I still can't play Dad's 8mms from the 40s.
     
  4. Nardpuncher

    Nardpuncher Rear Admiral

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    Hi, I didn't read all the other posts, so I'll just jump in.

    I only have season 3 on DVD (remastered) and it's fun to watch to see what's been changed and all, but I can understand the purists, as we've already suspended our disbelief, and maybe we've seen these episodes many times, so when it's changed, it feels odd.
    This goes for the Star Wars Special Editions too. The worst is when it even changes the story to a degree. You already told me what happened 20 years ago, now you go and change it!?
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    That really isn't a viable business model. Hold open manufacturing centers for the thousand people who had VHS decks die during that year.

    One of the things I've enjoyed about upgrading is handing off the older format to others. As I bought each Blu-Ray season set, my sixteen year old daughter would come ask for my copy of that season on DVD. I have a two and a half year old son that loves Star Trek. Imagine that when Blu-Ray is replaced, I'll be handing my Blu-Ray sets over to him. :)

    I think the Blu-Ray sets have offered the best of both worlds for TOS fans. I really couldn't ask for anything more.
     
  6. Nardpuncher

    Nardpuncher Rear Admiral

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    Well, they should just stop as soon as cute litle USBs that can hold 10 seasons of a TV show come out.
     
  7. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Eh? :confused:
     
  8. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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  9. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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    I have to admit I kinda liked the new shots better.
     
  10. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time


    Opinions are like assholes..everybody's got one..

    So pal lets get the gist of this..

    You dislike TOS-R because of it's VERY existence..even though you have any and all versions of TOS freely available and don't have to watch it at all..but show contempt for those who actually enjoy it..such as myself...

    You sound much like the following..

     
  11. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time

    ... For reasons that I have clearly specified, in this thread and in others. Mutilating/altering a finished piece of work to widen appeal long after the fact is a slope that just keeps getting steeper, with more and more artistry being lost along the way (with more and more product being altered) to the lowest common denominator.

    Get the gist, pal? Prob'ly not.

    edit addon: Do you get a kickback for every time you use the old 'opinons like assholes' chestnut? Because it is way past its sellthrough, and you seem to trot it out pretty regularly.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2010
  12. ST-One

    ST-One Vice Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time

    Nothing got lost.
    The original versions are still available. They are also on the Blu Rays.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time

    Actually, I don't. Not sure I see the problem people have making TOS presentable for HD broadcast. Most of the original effects are terribly blurry on my 40 inch-1080p LCD. I could see the issue if episodes with the original effects weren't available. But you have both the originals and the remastered episodes available on separate DVD releases and both versions available on the single Blu-Ray releases.

    Hell... I'm interested in the episodes cropped for 16:9 televisions released in Japan. I've seen all the episodes dozens of times and am appreciating the new effects.
     
  14. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time


    Ohh I do get the gist...and your implications are always abundantly clear. Just like a broken record,you bring out YOUR opinion more often than I use that phrase...

    In fact your opinions are often so predictable, I often can almost see exactly where in a thread you will trot them out,and keep whipping that outdated horse over and over...


    But as you appear to ignore the rest of my post..I'll trot out my opinion of your opinions..

    Total intolerance to change for a property you really don't own.


    I really don't have an issue with you wanting to see the original..after all it's what I grew up with..but the smugness and condescending language you use to decry those who disagree with your opinions about this subject just leads me to reiterate the fact you sound like the following..

    please read the entire link below for exactly how silly you are sounding...

    http://kfmonkey.blogspot.com/2004/12/fandamentalism.html
     
  15. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    Hasn't this thread already gone past its expiration date?
     
  16. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Re: TOS-Remastered: Fantastic, CGI: a waste of time

    How much are you going to pay me for my time to read something YOU recommend? Suggestion: aim HIGH ...
     
  17. number6

    number6 Vice Admiral

    For someone who thinks they need to be paid for our time, you certainly demand and waste so many other's.
     
  18. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    We reach!!
     
  19. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Blu-ray players will play DVDs. Sorry if you knew that, but your rant suggested you didn't!
     
  20. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    And I'm forcing you two members to read my posts? Nuh-uhh, there ain't no multi-barrelled pistol being aimed from my keyboard through webspace.
     

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