TOS-R in Widescreen?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Mr. Laser Beam, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I know that the new EFX are being made natively in widescreen. But since the show isn't being shown that way on TV (or HD-DVD), exactly why are they doing that?

    Are they still trying to figure out what to do with the live action - meaning, do they not yet know whether to try and make it widescreen as well - and thus are doing the EFX in widescreen just in case they do figure something out?

    Also, is there any way the live action could be made widescreen without cropping the top and bottom?
     
  2. Waugh

    Waugh Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    It is now pretty common place to make fx shots in the largest formats and then render them down to the desired size for a given format. This way, later if you wish you can easily have a larger format.
     
  3. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I don't think anyone knows how they'll present the live action in HD. When the HD-DVDs are released, we'll find out. I think those who have seen HD episodes via Xbox say the live action was not widescreen, but the effects were widescreen. Without cropping, the only other way to make is wide would be to stretch it, and that would be unsavory.

    Doug
     
  4. windwood

    windwood Ensign Red Shirt

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    I read somewhere (on TrekMovie.com, maybe) that the widescreen version of TOS is for markets where widescreen broadcasts are common - like Japan. They say that the standard aspect TV shows look terrible on widescreen, which is the reason for releasing a widescreen version.

    Like a lot of people, I'm very curious how good the widescreen versions will be. If they do intelligent cropping (based on scene composition) and maybe some discreet stretching, the widescreen TOS might still be watchable and not feel claustrophobic.

    In the very distant future, they might be able to produce widescreen episodes by reconstructing the missing left and right sections. That would be quite a feat. Purists will hate it, but there is a market for such work.
     
  5. doctorwho 03

    doctorwho 03 Captain Captain

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    I'm all in favor for widescreen, but I'm also someone who believes if a show (TV or movie) was not formatted for a particular aspect ratio, it shouldn't be forced to fit it. My main gripe is when a movie originally shown in theaters is reconfigured for a full screen TV. In many cases, the closeups are way too close, people get split in half, and the camera does a distracting pane when two people on opposite sides of the room are speaking to each other.

    If CBS/Paramount does go with widescreen, they should at least offer both formats that way people can buy whatever format they want, and noone will complain.
     
  6. Outpost4

    Outpost4 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was hoping I wouldn't be the one to have to post this but I guess I will. I know some people will say this is a sign that the Apocalypse is upon us.

    In Japan, TOS-R is being broadcast in widescreen HDTV, cropped to 16:9. The new effects are there already. The live action is cropped from the standard 4:3 aspect ration.

    This was reported by TrekMovie a while ago. I saw it but since nobody brought it up, I thought I'd try and let it quietly slide by. Now I can't.

    I wonder if I can get odds in Las Vegas as to how long it will be until a widescreen 16:9 version of Star Trek is either sold or broadcast in the United States? If the bet would be an over and under one, I'd take less than 5 years. If I could make good money, I'd take less than 3.
     
  7. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I didn't like that idea at first, but that footage looks very good.

    http://trekmovie.com/wp-content/uploads/tosrusavjapw.jpg

    RAMA
     
  8. Outpost4

    Outpost4 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    RAMA, you tell just half the story. Yes, the TOS-R footage looks good. How about the cropped footage from the series? That I'm not too wild about.

    [​IMG]

    This is inevitable but unfortunate.
     
  9. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Scotty wasn't very handsome, but he doesn't deserve having his head chopped off!

    You're right, Outpost, it's inevitable. Remember when TOS-R first started? We were assured that TOS would be available in HD w/ the original effects. Now that promise has been broken, and I'm sure the HD will only be available in cropped and stretched 16:9 too.

    Doug
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I *thought* they might crop the live-action footage. Sad, but true.

    I guess there's not much else they can do...they can't show parts of footage that don't exist.

    Although: That Trekmovie link says that even the HD-DVDs will *still* show the 4:3 version. So what's the point of doing the EFX in widescreen if we can't see it that way? :confused:

    I mean, why should Japan get them in widescreen but nobody else? Sheer spite?
     
  11. windwood

    windwood Ensign Red Shirt

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    As HDTVs become more established in the US, there's going to be great pressure on them to sell the widescreen versions in the US. Just as today, they sell both the standard and widescreen versions of DVDs. Of course, the widescreen TOS will have better effects, so fans will HAVE to buy both sets. :D

    Then there's the promise of Trek TOS in 3D. :drool: If Lucas can do Star Wars in 3D (that's the rumor), then Trek TOS 3D can't be far behind.
     
  12. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If there has to be a sacrifice, I prefer vertical picture rather than a horizontal one. It makes the scene have a little more scope.

    RAMA
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I hope you aren't, as my British brother-in-law would say, "taking the mickey". ;)
     
  14. MGagen

    MGagen Captain Captain

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    I hope they don't crop it to force it into "wide screen."

    They aren't planning on cropping the sides off of movies that were filmed for wider than 16 x 9. Those are still run with a little letterboxing in order to present the full picture. The same should be done for anything filmed in old-style TV proportion. Just run it with black bars on the sides. It's the only way to respect the vision of the original cinematographers.

    Classic Trek will never truly be widescreen -- just "Short Screen."

    M.
     
  15. Turbo

    Turbo Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Of course, Lucas still has all of the original film elements to work with, while most of them no longer exist for TOS.
     
  16. PowderedToastMan

    PowderedToastMan Commodore Commodore

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    what? they have been cropping and doing 'pan and scan' on films to fit to standard TV for decades. Only recently, and still rarely, do they do letterboxing and they are still cropping when they do that.
     
  17. Outpost4

    Outpost4 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think I understood what MGagen meant, PTM. On HDNet Movies or HBO HD, when they show something like an old Cinemascope movie, it is letterboxed. It may be a 16:9 screen but since the picture is wider than that, it is still letterboxed a bit. It isn't cropped on the sides to fit the screen.

    I have to agree with the purists here. Today there is more awareness on this issue and a desire to show movies in their original aspect ratio. Star Trek deserves the same respect. What MGagen was talking about for Star Trek was window boxing it, with the bars on the side. I watch all regular 4:3 television shows window boxed on my HDTV set. It looks fine. More than that, it looks proper.
     
  18. windwood

    windwood Ensign Red Shirt

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    There are products that convert 2D movies into 3D like this.

    There must be more sophisticated converters for high power workstations that give stunning results.

     
  19. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wouldn't they have to have the original TOS film elements to even do the remastering (that they're doing now) at all? :confused:
     
  20. Outpost4

    Outpost4 Vice Admiral Admiral

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