TOS Nacelles

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by Patrickivan, Sep 23, 2011.

  1. Patrickivan

    Patrickivan Fleet Captain Newbie

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    Thanks- I just couldn't remember, so I pulled a name out of the bottom of my whisky glass.
     
  2. 7thsealord

    7thsealord Captain Captain

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    Probably the most likely time to think of 'Spock's Brain'.
     
  3. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yet everything speaks for Deck 2 being exactly there. Beyond the obvious, the upper decks are traditionally the ones likely to hold officer/luxury accommodation. The shape of the Enterprise superstructure rather favors this idea as well, and Probert's redesign of the ship for ST:TMP places officer accommodation and VIP amenities right there. The turbolift system isn't likely to be handling any other traffic from the bridge at the time, and Spock's journey with the Commander is the centerpiece of attention; the lowest Ensign there would know not to disturb the two while they take their time rearranging interstellar politics. At most a lift from the lower decks might start honking a horn - but the system probably allows for cabins to pass each other. Spock holding the cab immobile is not just plausible, but would have been dramatically highly likely to occur regardless of the length of the turbolift trip.

    FWIW, five lights per deck is probably a pretty good average of the visual evidence. You don't get a vertical ride longer than six or seven decks in that ship, and IIRC the highest count of lights (in a scene with cuts, but probably without much "lost time") is around thirty.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  4. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    Dude, it's not just the five lights. It's a ride which lasts a whole minute. To go down one deck? Forget it. It's an error. Like I said, we'll never agree, so let's just agree to disagree, and move on. OK??

    P.S. What are guest quarters doing on deck two anyway? That's rhetorical by the way, so please don't answer. Kirk was not being euphemistic about giving her quarters.
     
  5. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What better place for them? It's not as if the ship is a VIP shuttle by design; the facilities are probably for a visiting admiral or other commanding personality (and may have alternate uses at other times). Having them next to the bridge is what navies of today (or at least yesterday) would do. It's not a situation that would need much explaining; it's something Probert ended up with, too, because it's the natural way to go.

    (And if I understand your euphemism comment correctly, no, those aren't Spock's quarters, or else Spock would leave the lift with the Commander and enter the quarters. That is, if Kirk did use that euphemism, he'd also be indirectly ordering Spock to bed the gal there and then.)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  6. blssdwlf

    blssdwlf Commodore Commodore

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    Fortunately there aren't that many turbolift scenes. The one with the most visible lines I think is the one from "Tomorrow is Yesterday", IIRC. I'll have to check tonight.

    An error could be the inconsistent use of the handles in the turbolift (maybe, I haven't reviewed all the turbolift scenes) or the lights only working on some of the handles. An error could be the lights moving the wrong way from the bridge.

    But, labeling that scene an error when we don't know what the turbolift is doing is the wrong error call, IMO. This scene only shows a brief vertical movement and then as you point out, cuts away from the motion indicator making it impossible to know what the lift is doing. Even though it might be said in jest, there can be a host of things preventing the turblolift car from reaching the door on deck 2 even though they could already be at deck 2. As far as I can tell in your argument, it only feels too long to you that they stood there talking for almost a minute.

    We'll just have to agree to disagree on both the location and whether it was an error.
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ...For a "real" case of an annoying turbolift ride oddity, see the behavior of the Defiant lifts in the earliest DS9 episodes featuring that ship. At the very best, there are six decks to go, and one could run the ship from end to end in a minute! So why do,say, Sisko and Dax spend three minutes in a cab?

    Then again, when Sisko got the ship, she was in a sorry state. Crawling turbocabs don't sound all that unlikely...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Port-side VIP cabin (one of two) on Deck 2...

    [​IMG]

    This is one of only a few spots in the primary hull which have windows... which is sort of an expectation for a VIP cabin.

    Essentially, this is the "admiral's quarters" which Scotty compared basic quarters on the 1701-D to.

    That's how I view it. Of course, part of that is because this space is really unsuitable for any other use, due to low headroom. A couch, a big bed... those can go underneath that sloped ceiling, right next to those windows, and it all makes sense, though.
     
  9. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, you mean the deck that contains primarily research labs, work areas for various technicians, and related duty stations, according to TMoST. Quarters, including passenger quarters, are on decks 4, 5, and 6, same source. A source that has Gene Roddenberry's name on it, I might add.

    According to what source are there admiral's quarters here?

    Who's ignoring the facts he's producing? I'm simply disagreeing with some of his opinions, with good reason.

    ANYWAY, there's nothing more to discuss on this particular subject.
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Which appears to be the official mark for material to be ignored, at the rate these things are going. Is there anything left in TMoST that would actually hold true for the Star Trek universe?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    It should be noted that TMoST also asserts that the main filming miniature of the Enterprise is fourteen feet long with a ten foot diameter saucer.

    It's a valuable resource asset, but it's not even close to infallible.
     
  12. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There's another one with Gene Roddenberry's name on it which states that Main Engineering is at the aft of the primary hull. and that the ship's main hangar bay can hold an entire fleet of modern passenger liner aircraft.

    So, yeah. Gene Roddenberry's name doesn't necessarily mean "unquestionable, from on-high."
    Wow, you really are suffering from reading comprehension issues, aren't you. Now, run along to get your N.Z. pals to come in and do your fighting for you again. :rolleyes:

    I did not say that it is "canon" that this is there. Just like there is nothing "canon" that says that there is anything else on Deck 2.

    Well, except for a line from an episode, which we're discussing, which states that the Romulan Commander is going to be put in quarters on Deck 2.

    But, that's not important, is it?
    No, you were being cocky and dismissive, WITHOUT GOOD REASON.
     
  13. Cary L. Brown

    Cary L. Brown Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exactly correct. It's a great reference material, but we don't have to treat it like a Muslim must treat the Koran, and we don't have to treat Gene Roddenberry like Mohammed.

    Doesn't mean we dismiss things, just that we're allowed to question them, and when and where necessary, let bits that don't reconcile with other bits "deprecate" a bit.

    The hangar deck on the Enterprise couldn't even hold "an entire fleet" of anything larger than a Piper Cub. And that would still be a fairly small fleet (four or so...)
     
  14. Crisp Crinkle

    Crisp Crinkle Admiral Admiral

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    The Making of Star Trek does indeed contain errors. But so does the dialog in the show itself.
     
  15. Patrickivan

    Patrickivan Fleet Captain Newbie

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    But we all know that. The fun is in taking the stuff and trying to make it work, and discarding the rest with a grain of salt. To make it all come together, we have to be willing to make sacrifices. At least in the sense of reaching a consensus. However on your own, you can agree or disagree with anything in Trek.

    Like for me, Not only is the a/am reactors in the nacelles, but they're very much integrated with the warp system and bussards. It's not like in TNG where you can apparently just open a hatch and slide the warp core in and out (quite sexy sounding though)! They're very big, very complicated, very dangerous engines.

    Some may personally disagree with me on it. But I'm just basing my conclusions on my observations on the show- throwing in some stuff that makes sense to me, disregarding the stuff that seems silly, and trying not to make up too much fantasy for this sci-fi drama.

    And all the while trying to avoid getting into unproductive arguments with fellow fans. I don't mind an argument as long as it's an exchange of ideas and points of views that don't piss on other people (unless the other person is being a douchebag- then I'm okay with it)... ;)