TOS Botany Lab = "Outdoor" Recreation Area?

Discussion in 'Trek Tech' started by mickemoose, Oct 24, 2012.

  1. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Last edited: Jun 1, 2013
  2. Albertese

    Albertese Commodore Commodore

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    Nice article. I look forward to reading about all those other sets you've mentioned.

    It's always for for me to watch any Star Trek production (not just TOS) and ID the sets they're redressing. It's amazing how much mileage they can get out of this stuff!

    --Alex
     
  3. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    @ GSchnitzer

    As you correctly pointed out the large third season set is the recreation room, not the arboretum which is often confused with, but as I mentioned up thread, the arboretum was sketched out by MJ as an adjoining set which was apparently never built, although some planter/tables intended for that set were built and were seen in “Is There In Truth, No Beauty” in which the large rec room was featured.

    Anywho, great article, look forward to more like it!
     
  4. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Well, the "Is There in Truth No Beauty?" set wasn't an arboretum, it was a herbarium. (They're actually different things.) The First Draft script has some valuable comments about it--as well as an earlier scene--that didn't survive to the final script. More on that later.
     
  5. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^^Yes I meant to say "Herbarium' as the adjoining set was called in MJ’s sketches, but in any case, regardless of what it was called in the script for ITITNB, it was actually a reuse of the large rec room set, and was not the adjoining set that MJ had intended.
     
  6. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    Here's a follow-up to my Rec Room write-up. This one is about the Herbarium set.


    http://www.startreknewvoyages.com/?p=3568
     
  7. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Doesn't that put a bit too much emphasis on the idea of the "No Beauty" set being a "herbarium" and a "fragile" and even "dangerous" location, when these aspects were completely erased from the final episode?

    It should probably be pointed out at some point that there was neither a herbarium nor an arboretum in the episode, merely a nondescript room with living flowers matching all the specifications of a previously seen recreational indoors garden.

    If the seduction scene is considered secure and secluded by Kirk, it's probably because he posted a guard somewhere nearby with orders not to let anybody in... ;)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  8. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Great article, Greg and quite an eye-opener regarding the restricted character of the Herbarium. :techman:

    According to the latest update in my deck plan thread I said that the Herbarium will / has to be on Main Deck 5 for a number of reasons, and you just provided the one I consider final and decisive. Thanks!

    Obviously the Herbarium belongs to the "Life Sciences Department Botany Section" and apparently this is a section of research and study with limited or restricted access to the "public".
    I admit I hadn't given that much thought before, but if it weren't restricted I can imagine many female crew members thinking "just one flower less will be no harm" and by the end of the day the place is empty.

    Probably the only excuse to remove flowers from in there is for weddings or funerals. Now I just have to figure out where they grow the celery Janice and Kirk have been seen eating. ;)

    Bob
     
  9. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    TMOST mentions this I think - massive refrigeration facilities!

    But the article is indeed a good one - it's fascinating to learn that they were intended as different locations. Was there ANY part of the set that wasn't redressed as something else as one point? Even the Bridge got this treatment (albeit to look like another bridge, but still...)
     
  10. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    I haven't really thought about it, but I don't think the transporter room was ever anything other than the transporter room.
     
  11. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    There is a passage suggesting they could grow food in the hydroponic gardens or something like this. But if they can refrigerate celery they could refrigerate other fruits and vegetables as well, which I really don't recall noticing.

    Maybe it was or looked exotic back in the 1960's? I don't like celery except when it comes with a Bloody Mary. ;)

    I haven't made a count but the transporter room was often redressed during the series, obviously to present the variety of the 4 personnel transporter rooms mentioned in The Making of Star Trek.

    Bob
     
  12. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Have we (or anyone) ever taken the Enterprise writeup in TMoST and analyzed it in-depth? I think that would be fascinating. Taken as a whole, it might bring up some serious headscratchers.
     
  13. Mytran

    Mytran Commodore Commodore

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    I think you could be right - and although the series' bible describes the chapel as being a redress of the Transporter Room (perhaps because of the raised platform?) of course it never was.
     
  14. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I'd think Franz Joseph's deck plans qualify as a faithful reproduction of the Enterprise description in TMoST and as this analysis, in a manner of speaking.

    To me it looks like it's a description for the pilot version or even prior to this for a couple of reasons:

    • The whole saucer separation suggestion (on a regular basis!) looks almost like transporters hadn't been invented yet (what reasonable purpose could the separated saucer be useful for, other than landing on a planet?). "Smells" like Forbidden Planet...;)
    • There is no mentioning whatsoever of the Auxiliary Control Room or the Emergency Manual Monitor, apparently these locations hadn't been even thought of, yet
    • Sickbay is supposedly on Deck 7 but all the onscreen evidence (e.g. turbo lift rides to sickbay) indicate Deck 5 to be its actual and canonical location!
    I think Stephen E. Whitfield added only a few updates during the time of "The Ultimate Computer", namely the duotronic systems and the conclusion that the senior officers' quarters are on Deck 5 - because M-5 hadn't switched off the lights on this deck.

    Of course, Gene Roddenberry finally got "his" saucer separation in TNG, the "outdoor recreation area" in "Elaan of Troyius" / "And the Children..." and the holoroom in TAS. Looks like three items he persistently pursued from the very beginning.

    The one that causes my deck plan project headaches is the location of the holoroom which according to TMoST should be on Deck 8.
    However, one of the four top side skylights or "starlights" would make a better location considering the depiction in TAS as a rectangular and illuminated white room, IMHO.

    Bob
     
  15. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    Back to the original topic. Here is the Jefferies pre-production sketch for the Herbarium from "Is There in Truth No Beauty?"

    [​IMG]

    You can clearly see in the middle the fake door "carniverous plants" as described in the early screenplay (thanks GSchnitzer) where Kirk had to keep Miranda from running in to. ;)

    While the left part is obviously the set of the Season Three Rec Room (I prefer to refer to as "Solarium") that was considered for shooting, Jefferies also wanted to add a bigger section towards the right which most likely didn't happen because of budget restrictions.

    So finally Kirk and Miranda entered and left through the yellow double door "Corr." (otherwise used as the side door to the briefing room set and others) and the longer scene was probably deleted because there wasn't the other door Miranda could run to and endanger herself...

    Bob

    (cool, looks like I just got promoted to Fleet Captain)
     
  16. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ah, looks like this thread just got interesting again.

    It's worth pointing out in connection with the above, that in Jefferies other sketches the round room on the left is always labeled "recreation room" whereas the rectangular room on the right is always labeled "herbarium" so it's clear that he wanted them to be separate but connected facilities, just as they are described in TMoST.
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2013
  17. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    ^^ OTHER sketches / floor plans (than the one in my previous post) with annotations?!?!
    I'd have to see these before I believe it.

    TMoST doesn't mention the Herbarium, it just refers to a "large recreation area" with outdoor characteristics which "will be seen in the third season". And the Season Three "recreation room" apparently has these characteristics, doesn't it?

    Unlike the new "recreation area" seen in CL and (deleted) ET, the TB Herbarium lacks the fountain-look-alike structure in the middle of the room.

    Bob
     
  18. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    They can all be found at trekcore, the one I'm thinking of is the perspective or elevation view of the round rec room with the caption "recreation room".

    Yes, that was my point. Although I should have been more specific, in addition to the "large recreation area" which undoubtedly referred to the set under discussion, TMoST also mentions an "exotic entertainment center" and other things besides, which I take to be interconnected facilities, or at least side by side?

    The Herbarium could certainly be among them since it seems to fall under the same general category.

    Yes, but the "Herbarium" in "TB" is just a redress of the round recreation room under discussion, and is not the set MJ originally intended as seen in the sketch above, albeit with the "planters" that were originally designed for the herbarium.

    And yes, this "Herbarium" apparently had the round fountain/planter thingy removed, although it's hard to tell since the camera angles are so tight?

    I suppose since the deleted scene in EoT includes a suggestion that there are two identical round rooms side by side, we could fudge and say one is the rec room and one is the herbarium, thereby salvaging at least the spirit of MJ's intent if not the literal execution?
     
  19. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    I see. But that sketch only shows the "recreation room" with a water sprinkling fountain. You seemed to suggest there was a reference to the Herbarium.

    It is my understanding that "exotic entertainment center" referred to the holoroom, we finally saw in TAS.

    I can't help but to look at the ceiling cross-beams and instantly notice that the fountain/planter doesn't connect there because it's missing.

    That was my original idea, too, but the missing fountain-planter of the Herbarium, which is there in the "mirror shots" in both ET and CL, suggests differently.

    I think to salvage the spirit of MJ we should consider the possibility that the Herbarium circular room from TB instead connects to the living plants botany section featured in "The Man Trap". YMMV. :)

    Bob
     
  20. TIN_MAN

    TIN_MAN Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, sorry for the confusion. My point was that the redress of the round “recreation room” set in “ITITNB” has led to some confusion concerning what the sketch you posted upthread really shows?

    Notice only the rectangular right side of the sketch is labeled “Herbarium” directly under that portion of the sketch with a big arrow drawn from only that portion of the sketch down to the word “Herbarium”. And in addition there are several other sketches also labeled “Herbarium” that, once again, only show that rectangular right portion of the two-sided set that MJ originally intended to build. To me, this is clear evidence that only that right side was intended to be the “herbarium”, not the whole two part set, as some seem to think, based evidently, on the redress from “ITITNB”.

    In addition, the other sketch I mentioned, and which you linked to above, clearly labels the round room seen in other episodes, as the “Recreation Room”, distinguishing it as a separately purposed facility from the adjoining “herbarium” as seen in the sketch you posted earlier. I think the only reason MJ didn’t label the left round portion of his set sketch as “Recreation Room” is simply because, at this point he was more interested in the details for the right “Herbarium” side, which, unfortunately was never built and they made do with just the redress of the round “Recreation Room” side?

    IOW’s, I think the two part set was originally intended as part of the elaborate overall “exotic entertainment center” mentioned in TMoST, and just got whittled down to what we got.

    Agreed, but they are not mutually exclusive.

    Yes, too bad they didn’t think to move it out of camera range when they filmed the mirror shot over Nimoy’s shoulder in “EoT”, to at least suggest some differences, but oh well. In any event, the tight camera angles in “ITITNB” give us a bit of a fudge factor IMHO.

    Yes, but I’m not as literal as you are, and I figure since it’s a deleted scene anyway, it gives us a little more wiggle room? And I’m not aware of any mirror shots in “CL”?


    That’s a possibility, but I tend to think of “TMT” set/facility as the Botany Lab which is primarily for research, as opposed to the Herbarium which is as much for “R/R” as anything else.