to protect the future, keep the past alive

Discussion in 'Future of Trek' started by topcat, Sep 12, 2016.

  1. topcat

    topcat Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2016
    Gene created specific rules, and practices for star trek. The two series that kept to them, TOS and TNG did extremely well.

    The series since then, well, lets just say they did about as well as an alien that cant drink alcohol at a beer convention in 1930s munich.

    They kept to standard morals board guidelines for things like sex and nudity. That meant, no boys bending boys over behind the ops consol during lunch, or girls licking each other silly behind Galileo 7 during break times.
    As a result you did not have that homosexual mumbo jumbo in TOS. You had NORMAL male female relations that were in every other tv show and movie since time began. And you also had inter racial things going, not just Uhura and Kirk. You guys only see inter racial as being black and white. There was a large amount of non black and non white people in star trek for regular charecters, special stars of the week, and back ground people.

    Its just YOUR racist view point that lets you over look all of that and say TOS, and star trek itself is racist because it lacked your perverted sense that ALL command officers must be black or female. TOS had lots of females in command. Its just that the female uniforms keeps you from paying any attention to something other then their legs.

    TOS had homosexual actors in it, all the series have. Its just that in the last 20 years that actors have been using orientation as a crutch to prop up flagging careers and to get roles that wouldn't have gone to them other wise. SO many actors and actresses are doing that.

    In TNG we had lots of openly non heterosexual romances and charecters. I remember several major episodes that were basically Riker finding a new gender bender romantic partner and screwing things up because of that.
    One episode if I recalls, the character he got interested in on an away mission had to get gender reassignment surgery/mental reprogramming anyway to deal with the aborhent thoughts.

    the addition of adding in homosexual characters and actors just for ratings, viewership, and sponsor ship is just a sick by product of the times. SO many shows have done that and simply gone missing from tv for good the following season..

    The addition of gay characters has been done well in various shows. Barney Miller was notable for having non traditional characters. And the charectoers were done well. They were humans with normal problems.
    One episode the recurring gay store thief steals some nice hand bags. When caught and questioned, hes asked why and replies "they looked nice". And hes only mocked as "what kind of moron steals a purse without a wallet in it"

    And that's not how the new discovery has been promising. It was promised it would be a political addition of non hetero charecters. That means, homosexual sex in buckets, and guys running around in mini skirts demanding to be called "ms" and "honey". Basically bad show time porno shows.
     
  2. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    England
    If the gayness threatens, upsets or intimidates you, don't watch it.

    Problem solved!
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  3. skip bittman

    skip bittman Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Is this satire?
     
    USS Triumphant likes this.
  4. Spot261

    Spot261 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    wallowing in ice cream
    Spot looks around slightly bewildered....

    sorry can't even bring myself to be offended here, you deserve pity

    I wouldn't normally even suggest this, but can any chance this can be shut down?
     
    USS Triumphant likes this.
  5. Spot261

    Spot261 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    wallowing in ice cream
    No, ignore the above, everyone has the right to an opinion and discussion is good.

    So here goes:

    I've argued elsewhere against the token inclusion of minority characters at the expense of creativity. That differs vastly from what you are proposing. Somehow you feel that the (imagined?) decline of the franchise is somehow directly related to issues of sexuality? That portraying some level of sexual variance has crushed the show?

    Can you provide any evidence to that effect?

    TOS lasted three seasons before being cancelled, with the third season already being on a reduced budget. In real terms it was hardly a resounding success at the time, the movies brought it back to mainstream prominence. It hardly did "extremely well".

    You state in TNG we had "lots of openly non heterosexual romances and characters". Whilst I struggle to recall all that much evidence on screen, it was by many measures the most commercially successful installment of the franchise. Certainly outside of the dedicated fanbase I'm sure more people would know Picard's name than Archer's.

    So the series which follow "Gene's rule" (first I've heard of such a rule, even numbered nacelles? check. no warp eleven? check, no gays? ummm...) pretty much flopped, but the one which didn't (and a few that followed) was a massive success.

    I'm really not sure you have a case here other than being openly homophobic and trying to fit reality into your world view like a square peg fits into a round hole.
     
  6. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Yay, another "Gene-Roddenberry-is-God-and-He-hates-gays" post. Awesome.

    The future doesn't need protecting. It's a fucking TV show. If you hate gays, then don't fucking watch the show. Watch your TOS DVDs instead.
     
  7. Tenacity

    Tenacity Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    I wonder how the OP feels about Spot occasional changing genders?
    Always.
    Some people sure, but not all. The second inter-racial kiss on Star Trek was between Shatner and France Nuyen. IMHO it was a hotter kiss.

    While a major player in the production team, Roddenberry was never the sole creative person, nor was he ever solely in control.
     
    Jedman67 likes this.
  8. Kor

    Kor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    Dahar Master final exams
    Before this gets closed, I would like to point out that Shatner's kiss with Barbara Luna in "Mirror, Mirror" predated the one with Nichols, but it always gets completely overlooked in any discussion of inter-racial kisses. :(

    Kor
     
    uniderth and Tim Thomason like this.
  9. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    Is this a Star Trek forum or a forum for disgusting bigots to vent their hateful views on the internet? I'm confused.
     
    rocketdave and Bry_Sinclair like this.
  10. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    TOS was cancelled. Twice. But it did well in syndication.

    Deep Space Nine and Voyager ran for seven seasons, before ending on their own accord. Enterprise was admittedly cancelled after four seasons. They all did better than the Original Series (although none as good as The Next Generation). "Emissary" is the highest rated episode of Star Trek in the modern era.

    TOS isn't racist. It's a product of its time sure, and it probably gets some undue credit, but I say judging with other series in mind, it might be the most liberal, progressive series of Star Trek produced (and I believe my beloved Enterprise is the opposite).

    I disagree.

    I recall one. The episode you mention, which is called "The Outcast". Frakes wanted a man to portray the neutral sexed Soren, but was overruled in that decision (if I recall correctly). The ending was supposed to be sad, and we were supposed to empathize with Riker.

    But not Star Trek. Discounting the mirror universe and occassional Trill.

    Barney Miller was thirty years ago, but that doesn't sound like a very positive portrayal to me (haven't seen it though). I hope Star Trek does better.

    I think Bryan Fuller just wants at least one character to represent himself. Gene Roddenberry got Captain Kirk and Commander Riker and Ensign Crusher. Other show runners should be afforded that opportunity.

    And while Showtime does have its share of nudity, I think Cinemax is the historical place to go for soft pornography (although the Internet makes that obsolete). Star Trek: Discovery may feature some adult situations of some sort, but I have a feeling that CBS might be holding tight reins on anything of that nature. I think Enterprise might still be the show to go for things of that sort.
     
    Bry_Sinclair and Balok's Decoy like this.
  11. Spot261

    Spot261 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    wallowing in ice cream
    How the OP feels?

    Jeez, how do you think I feel?
     
    Rincewiend and Jedman67 like this.
  12. Tenacity

    Tenacity Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2016
    Umm, like you've saved $10,000 in drug and surgical costs?
    Barney Miller did have a reoccuring male gay couple in a steady relationship. They were played for laughs, but so was everyone else.
     
    Spot261 likes this.
  13. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    $10,000 if you're lucky, christ, most MtF I know can't even get stable estimates on their medication costs.
     
    Coloratura likes this.
  14. skip bittman

    skip bittman Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2016
    Look at the time period we're talking about. The civil rights movement, etc. Isn't it obvious WHY that would get more attention?
     
  15. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Captain Captain

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    Daniels' Illinois
    I'm of the firm belief that Spot never changed genders. Data just occassionally changed Spots.
     
    Jedman67 likes this.
  16. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Barbara Luna's background is Italian, Hungarian, Spanish, Portuguese and Filipino. I never thought of that as an "interracial" love scene. I guess it just goes to show how nebulous and impossible to define the whole concept of "race" is.
     
    Jinn, cultcross and Kor like this.
  17. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    The glorious Shetland Isles!
    Yes let's also hope that all black characters are slaves and women are wholly subservient to men, because you can't beat the good old days :rolleyes:
     
  18. Spot261

    Spot261 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2013
    Location:
    wallowing in ice cream
    but you can beat the slaves and women
     
  19. Bry_Sinclair

    Bry_Sinclair Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2009
    Location:
    The glorious Shetland Isles!
    Because Discovery is just going to be hard core porn of course, and all homosexual people are promiscuous and jump from one sexual partner to the other all day long. I mean it's not like they fall in love, stay faithful, get married, and grow old together. Perish the thought!

    Just because something is commonplace doesn't make it "normal" (probably my most hated word in the dictionary). There are dozens of species of animal on our little world that engage in same-sex activities, so it seems to be as "normal" as anything else.

    I am tempted to say more but that may get me a warning from the admin so I will bite my tongue, even for battling small-mindedness.
     
    Balok's Decoy likes this.
  20. Balok's Decoy

    Balok's Decoy Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2016
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    "Star Trek was an attempt to say that humanity will reach maturity and wisdom on the day that it begins not just to tolerate, but take a special delight in differences in ideas and differences in life forms. If we cannot learn to actually enjoy those small differences, to take a positive delight in those small differences between our own kind, here on this planet, then we do not deserve to go out into space and meet the diversity that is almost certainly out there.” - Gene Roddenberry

    Is this the kind of rule you're referring to?
     
    lawman, Bry_Sinclair and Tim Thomason like this.