Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by Dream, Sep 13, 2012.
Then you will not know what to say.
BOBW is a great 2-parter and Chain of Command & Unification both have great PtIIs but both their PtIs are just OK. The opposite is true for Descent. Time's Arrow, Redemption, Birthright & Gambit are all watchable, but not outstanding.
As such, I don't think the movies have quite such stiff competition with just the 2-parters as they do versus the series as a whole.
I like Generations a lot more than most people (it has a lot of nice little touches throughout, a unique visual look and an interesting story theme despite admittedly imperfect execution) and think it easily exceeds most of the two parters. First Contact is a somewhat dumb but very well-executed action flick with a cool ending; I'd put it ahead of a lot of the two parters too. Insurrection is thoroughly average and Nemesis is dreadful by every measure I can think of.
That means I find two of the four TNG movies very enjoyable and one watchable. Out of the 16 episodes comprising the 8 series 2-parters I find 5-6 very enjoyable and vast majority of the rest to be watchable.
I'd definitely agree that the 2-parters have much more consistency than the movies, but going solely by my "very enjoyable" category, the movies actually come out slightly ahead percentage-wise. It's a real shame Nemesis was so awful & left such a bad taste in the mouth.
(PS I don't count Farpoint or AGT as 2-parters as they're more standalone double-length episodes rather than episodes designed as 2-parters. I really like both these two eps; if they're included in the 2-parters list, that would certainly be enough to decisively tip the scales in its favour.)
Admittedly I haven't personally seen many of the TNG two-parters:im still working on my Deep Space 9 episodes.
That established, I can think of STANDARD LENGTH TNG episodes which are ahead of ALL of the movies in every respect.
I cite "Who Watches the Watchers" as my example. That episode succeeds where Nemesis, Insurrection, Generations, and First Contact failed-on the fundamentals of telling a good story.
That's the core foundation of Trek when its all said and done, namely the use of believable and identifiable characters using futuristic technology and their sheer wit to solve problems in a funny, entertaining and plausible story.
The movie making teams forgot about that when making the TNG features.They used caricatures of the complex TNG characters, stuffed them into stories a 10 year old would call stupid, and hoped the special effects would induce memory blackouts so the audience wouldn't remember the sorry script.
With the TV series, the writers couldn't afford to produce schlock at the season finale.I chalk up the quality difference to the fact that if the movies failed at the box office, no worries, Paramount would eventually re-make another Star Trek. So what if the movie writers produced Lucasfilm-grade schlock? Paramount would never abandon the franchise;worst case they'd just get someone else to make the next movie, so the only thing the Star Trek TNG creative time had to do was make their movie well enough to not get fired.
The TV show on the other hand was NOT guaranteed by any stretch.The studio wouldn't abandon Star Trek movies , but one bad TV season finale and the jigs up. Since the series could be cancelled by the studio at the end of a season, the writers and creative staff got their sh-t together for the TNG two parters;because it would be the bread lines for them if they put up schlock for a season finale.
much as I love Best of Both Worlds, First Contact just edges it for me, just had a more epic feel to it as much as anything, and the added time travel element I really liked.
agree with the others, though I liked all the TNG films to a point, even Nemesis I enjoyed till the ending.
Meh, I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon of TNG movie-hate, but I can say that I thoroughly enjoy almost all the TNG two-parters.
Birthright was a kokenbalz episode for sure! Man i watched this last night: does your hair "grow"! It was so cheesbally!
I don't think they would have based such a decision on a single episode. Fire the producers, replace the cast for the 2nd half sure, wouldn't put that past them, but they still would have resolved it. A luxury many shows axed on a cliffhanger don't get.
IIRC correctly Season 5 was never supposed to end on a cliffhanger, but then people thought with DS9 starting up TNG was ending. And season 6 I don't think everyone was under contract for season 7 at the time.
I find the movies easier to sit back and enjoy. Maybe because they are on TV more often.
They did abandon the movies, as far as TNG was concerned.
I'm with ya on Generations. Yes there are huge plot holes, but I think it's actually my favorite of the TNG movies because it feels the most like (and takes the best parts of) the series and translates it to the big screen.
I have a soft spot for the TNG films, even INS in many places. I wish those films could have been made with 1/3 to 1/2 less action sequences. Its been analyzed a zillion times, but ultimately the TNG films did not play to their true strengths - and fuck off the Ent-D looked *nice* on the big screen. Certainly better than that nu-enterprise with sausages for nacelles...
*directed at no one in particular
With the movies I've always enjoyed Generations (and the Shatner books that were spun-off from it), along with First Contact and Nemesis.
As for the two part episodes, Birthright, even as a kid I preferred the Data storyline/DS9 crossover, while Worf's storyline was rather tedious and boring; the producers had a good thing going in Part 1, but then they really dropped the ball in Part 2 with just making it a Worf story and no follow-up to Data's story in Part 1. I remember watching Part 1 on tape the morning after CHRO had aired it (I remember that I was really, really sick that weekend so I had gone to bed before the episode aired), and the following weekend I tuned in, all excited too see what would happen to Data, but instead we got the stupid Worf storyline.
Yes, the Worf storyline dragged, especially after the letdown of learning that Mogh was long dead. It would have been really cool if Worf had met his father.
I don't know about you guys, but I am eagerly awaiting the pt. 1 "bird" flyby scene.
I wholeheartedly agree. One of the positive aspects of the series was that because of permanent budget restrictions they had to work hard to compensate the lack of VFX with intriguing and fascinating plots and dialogue.
With the TNG movies they focused to much on VFX and action and neglected plot and dialogue (same problem with the Star Wars prequels). Just my personal opinion, of course.
I love that scene too.
The only thing I liked about the movies was Riker and Troi finally marrying. Other than that, I like to think they never happened. The series had a great finale in AGT and for most fans I know, that's where they also feel TNG ended.
Chain of command was a brilliant two parter and quite controversial at its time, with its depiction of torture and humiliation as a means to extract information.
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