TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoilers!)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Sho, Oct 21, 2012.

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Rate The Persistence of Memory.

  1. Outstanding

    71 vote(s)
    55.9%
  2. Above Average

    42 vote(s)
    33.1%
  3. Average

    12 vote(s)
    9.4%
  4. Below Average

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  5. Poor

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  1. rfmcdpei

    rfmcdpei Captain Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    One thing about this novel that I appreciated was the sense of humour, some of it approaching the level of meta-humour. The example of Galor IV, with its governor wondering whether it was the mere presence of the Enterprise that triggered planetary emergencies, was one example.

    Two meta-jokes that stood out for me involved Soong's failure to determine a consensus among the locals whether the actual name of Alpha Centauri IV is a
    Velestus, Centaurus or Al Rijil IV, or his purchase of a class-M moon called Yutani IIIa presumably named after the android-making Weyland-Yutani Corporation] of Alien fame, or--for that matter--his discussion of how incredibly difficult it is to amass the funds necessary to buy a world outright (sorry quark). Later, in a different sort of meta-joke Faur warns Picard that taking the Enterprise to hide in the atmosphere of a gas giant could have calamitous results--why, look at what happened to the Da Vinci when it entered the atmosphere of Galvan VI.

    There are other, non-meta, bits of humour, too. There's Soong's complete surprise when the Borg open fire on his Yutani IIIa in 2381 without communicating a word, and then there's the Breen reaction to the surprise of the Enterprise landing party when they offer them prisoner of war status (basically, that they had to change things a bit when they signed onto the Typhon Pact, but they still retain the right to execute spies).

    I liked this. There's nothing quite like reading a good book that's also incidentally funny.

     
  2. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Ohmygodohmygodohmygod!!
    Do any guest characters from IC other than Maddox appear in PoM?
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Yes.
     
  4. Ronald Held

    Ronald Held Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    I should have it downloaded tomorrow?
     
  5. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Cool! I might have to move this up to the top of the line for my stuff to buy. Would I miss anything if I the last 3 or 4 Typhon Pact books, and moved on to this?
     
  6. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Just downloaded to my ipad. Probably wont be able to start it until later today or tomorrow.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    It's funny, for a democratic body ran by a civilian government. It seems Starfleet has an awful lot of power to come in and take over without even consulting the government. Like a battalion commander shutting down Ohio without first consulting elected officials.

    Not a complaint about the book, just an observation about our utopian Federation.
     
  8. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    I don't think so. The first book, at least, has virtually nothing to do with the Typhon Pact storyline.
     
  9. Patrick O'Brien

    Patrick O'Brien Captain Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Got it! Love how my kindle updates with no effort on my part:) Now I need to finish IM and get on with the show.
     
  10. The Evil Dead

    The Evil Dead Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Was waiting for me on my Kindle app when I woke up this morning!
     
  11. VDCNI

    VDCNI Captain Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Read it - went for above average.

    Very much a Mack book, the infiltration section at the end reminded me a bit of Warpath and as with most of his books it has a very military feel at times which did mean that the very fantastical TOS story of an immortal man who was once Leonardo felt even more out of place here than it did in Immortal Coil.

    That said the Enterprise focused storyline was good, a nice balance of action and character even if a lot of the main cast barely got a look in. The Breen felt a bit one note though here - somewhat generic shock troops.

    The
    Soong
    sequences were mainly interesting, offering a different perspective on the Federation and recent events though some of it dragged - mainly the casino stuff. It also added another conspiracy going on in the background that we previously knew nothing about.

    As for the two major talking points

    I can't say I was bothered either way about Data coming back, I would have happily had him stay dead but I'll wait and see if the next two books make his return worthwhile. Just please don't go in the Countdown direction - that was terrible.

    I can't say I'm happy at all about Choudhury dying, yes it's more realistic if people die in Starfleet but it does feel like the Enterprise has lost more of its fair share of characters recently and it would be nice to have some stability. Plus yet another loss for Worf, we've been here before haven't we. I did have a feeling that she wasn't going to make it out alive once they got to the planet.

    Looking forward to the next two books though.

    I know this is a spoiler thread but I've used spoiler tags just in case, hardly anyone would have read it yet after all.
     
  12. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Oh you have got to be s@#ting me, you mean David Mack actually did it, sigh well I guess my reading TNG era is coming to n end soon, if the authors are just going back to the same reset button stuff Abrams had the sense to get rid of, and no I don't buy the "it came at a cost" thing, which I frankly find is a bunch of crap if you kill someone and bring them back to life its a cop out plan and simple. And they probably are going in that direction even though IT CONTRADICTS THE FREAKING MOVIE!

    I take it this is the justification to try to justify the whole making a mockery of death thing, while still pretending death has any say in the trek universe (which is bulls@#t at this point) meh, she'll be back when the next guy wants to hit the reset button I mean this book brought back a not even minor character to finish reseting Indistinguishable from Magic.

    To say I am not happy with these events is a serious understatement of epic proportions.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    What I like about the outcome of the book is this:
    Data's "resurrection" is ambiguous enough to satisfy both sides of the resurrection debate. Those who wanted to see Data return can choose to believe this new android is the same person as Data, just with some new abilities added. But those who dislike the idea of resurrection can choose to believe that this isn't truly Data, but a new entity that simply has Data's memories; and it's not a reset button because Data 2.0 hasn't put on a Starfleet uniform, isn't on the Enterprise crew, and has attributes that Data never had. So no, it isn't a copout, and it doesn't contradict Nemesis either.

    My view is that the new "Data" isn't a resurrection of the original, but more of a composite entity -- Data's memories combined with the neurology and cognitive structure of the Soong android. I see him as being Data in the same way that Ezri is Dax -- the essence of what Data was is in there, but combined with a new "host" to produce something different. Except that the Dax symbiont has an unbroken physical existence from one host to the next, so it's clearly the same continuous entity, whereas Data 2.0 merely has a copy of the original Data's memories, so it's more problematical to claim any direct continuity of personhood.

    So I think if Data had to be brought back, this was the best way to do it -- since it's not merely a reset to the old status quo, but a whole new version of the character offering whole new story potentials. Although I'm speaking rhetorically when I say "if Data had to be brought back." This was not a situation where Dave was instructed to resurrect Data or anything like that. IIRC, what he told me is that he just realized it was the best resolution to the story he'd been developing.

    I've always been one of the most vocal opponents to the idea of resurrecting Data, but Dave found a way to do it that satisfied all my concerns and is actually quite clever and interesting. So I hope others will give the book a chance before jumping to conclusions.
     
  14. Sho

    Sho Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Hmm. Ok, given that I've at least read Coil and am way too curious about this one I think I'll plunge ahead and start reading it tomorrow, spoilers for the parts of TNG I'm not caught up on be damned ...
     
  15. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Although not a huge fan of 'Coil' I have some faith in the author and what I have picked up so far does look very promising...
     
  16. toughlittleship

    toughlittleship Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    I for one won't miss
    Choudhury
    at all.
     
  17. E-DUB

    E-DUB Captain Captain

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    Oct 28, 2011
    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Since I can't do the whole "spoiler box thing", I'll just say that Christopher's thoughts on the matter echo my own and leave that at that.

    As for the book itself, I loved it and can't wait to see what happens next.
     
  18. rfmcdpei

    rfmcdpei Captain Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    My guess is that he's assuming
    that Data is brought back within B-4's body, the usual speculative "Data resurrection" scenario, which would contradict the movie because the movie made it clear that B-4's neural net was too unsophisticated to handle Data's software. But the novel doesn't contradict that at all, since it takes a different route to bringing Data 2.0 into existence, and indeed the fundamental incompatibility between B-4's brain and Data's memories is a driving element of the plot.
     
  20. Sho

    Sho Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: TNG: The Persistence of Memory by David Mack Review Thread (Spoile

    Christopher, how does the book's method compare to the replay theory?