TNG episodes where they hang out with species without warp drive

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by ajac09, Aug 21, 2013.

  1. ajac09

    ajac09 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    So when did they decide that they dont have anything to do with species without warp capability? Because in TNG there is at least one episode they are helping a species with only sub-light capability aka The Outrageous Okona any other episodes you can think of?
     
  2. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon
    Well...

    There's "Who Watches The Watchers", but that was by accident I guess?


    All Hail The Picardâ„¢!!!
     
  3. Timelord Victorious

    Timelord Victorious Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2006
    Location:
    Germany, Earth, the Solar System
    Rule of thumb.

    If a species develops warp drive they are about to enter a world they might not be prepared for, so First Contact protocols are initiated to ease the new species into the larger galactic community (or else, see what happened between the Minbari and Earth in B5).

    Though manned interstellar warp flight might ot be the only criterium to establish relations.

    Practically anything that makes the new species aware, that they are not alone, would be sufficient.
    They might develop subspace communication before warp fligt and pick up transmissions, or the have sleeper ships out there or deep space probes that came about strange aliens.

    Of course, a species that doesn't have warp capability yet, must be protected under Prime Directive to not be influenced to much.
    Of course, if they are aware of other species, they have a reason to heavily invest into warp flight research and might not be out of the loop for too long.
     
  4. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Which is simply wrong.

    The Federation is robbing newly warp-capable species of the ability to explore and grow and find their own place in the galactic community.
     
  5. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    I've always had a bit of an issue with that too. Let the new species seek them out if they want to. Watch them if you must, but for the love of God don't send an emissary (or missionary, if you prefer...) to their planet on the first day they have warp drive.

    It's this sort of thing that makes the Federation look like a crazy root beer sipping cult... :rommie:
     
  6. vulcan redshirt

    vulcan redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2013
    Location:
    UK
    Development of subspace radio before warp drive apparently does not constitute 'acceptance into the community' - remember that episode where they young girl builds a subspace radio to call for assistance from the geological catastrophe (Sarjenka I think her name was). - remember how they had to mind-wipe her?

    Also have to bear in mind that a numer of species that gain warp technology during the life of the federation are located within its boundaries (completely surrounded), so their post-warp cultural development is rather limited by that issue.

    During TOS and TNG, we see many cultures that do not seem to be technologically advanced enough to have warp drive, however are freely visited without implications for the PD. One can assume that these species may had been previously visited by starships belonging to those not bound by the PD, and gained warp travel through purchase, or reverse engineering someone else's technology.
     
  7. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The Vulcans did it with us! :lol:
     
  8. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2010
    Location:
    Ward Fowler's gofer.
    I always had an issue with Picard's line in "First Contact" (TV show) that it was better for contact to take place in a controlled setting (in this case, the scientist's bedroom, after they beamed down unannounced) instead of out in space.

    I'd be a lot less leery of a aliens that I met in the inky darkness of the interstellar void than ones who just showed up in my bedroom unannounced.
     
  9. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    ^Just checked the episode on Netflix. It's clearly a lab
     
  10. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Umm.... Never?

    It's just an urban myth that the invention of warp drive would have anything much to do with Prime Directive protection or non-interference or any such thing. Rather, it's just that when a civilization does invent warp drive, this is the very last moment the Feds can contact them before they contact the Feds!

    Ideally, some civilizations might be contacted earlier on - but the galaxy is a big place, and the Federation is busy with all sorts of things, so many a contact probably gets delayed until the very last moment, which is how we get episodes like "First Contact". This need not be in any sort of contradiction with other episodes where warp-less civilizations are contacted.

    This doesn't necessarily mean that subspace radio would be "insufficient" for contact - rather, it may be a further indication that technology is irrelevant to the contact issue, and other factors dictate whether the UFP has to stand off. In Sarjenka's case, Picard is wary of actively offering help to the locals when they don't (can't!) officially ask for help yet; the locals having warp might not have made Picard any more willing to push his assets, if the official plea for help wasn't forthcoming.

    Contacting the locals in connection with this crisis might have been a bad move in any case: if there's any chance that interstellar interference would negatively affect a local culture, it's when said interference saves the planet! If salvation comes from the gods of the deep heavens, that's bound to passivate and demoralize the locals. Picard probably thus made the correct call in implementing the salvation in secret, as well as in not making contact at that time yet.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  11. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    And that makes it right? ;)
     
  12. Finn

    Finn Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    ^must have been the logical thing to do ;)
     
  13. Gojira

    Gojira Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2008
    Location:
    Stompin' on Tokyo
    I just watched that this afternoon. It does seem the Starfleet has a strange timetable by which they observe civilizations that have not achieved warp flight.

    In First Contact (the episode) left me with the impression that they have not be observing them for too long. But "Who Watches The Watchers" makes me think they have been watching them for centuries.
     
  14. jazzstick

    jazzstick Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    May 10, 2009
    Location:
    The Darkside of The Moon

    That's a rule about beating your wife!
     
  15. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    "Justice" seems to show a pre warp civilization, and possibly "Code of Honor" too.

    That said there must be some protocols for pre warp contact, I mean what if a civilization is contacted by another power for example, Would be pointless to try and hide the existence of far roaming galactic powers from species who are aware of them already.

    Then again we see on multiple occasions that the Prime Directive means that the Federation would rather sit back and watch a culture die than aid them if they are unaware of alien life.
    Certainly in the TOS era that was not the case, notice that in "For the World is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky" Kirk is completely comfortable with his actions and his conversation with Spock in "The Apple" suggests that the prime directive is open to interpretation at that point. Note that Spock says that "Starfleet may not agree" not that they "Will Not" or that the Prime Directive is inviolable, something it certainly has become by the TNG era.

    Funnily enough, omnipotent beings seem to have no problem with contacting lesser species and they by definition are all knowing.....
     
  16. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    TOS played much more fast and loose with the pre-warp thing than TNG did. Perhaps "Justice" and "Code of Honor" were holdovers from that line of thinking.
     
  17. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    Possibly, though as early as Bread and Circuses, the doctrine on no identification of self and mission is stated to be part of the Prime Directive.
    Not that they cared about showing up in uniform at that point:rolleyes:
     
  18. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    ...While, in contrast, no episode states or suggests that pre-warp civilizations should not be contacted or interacted with. Indeed, say, the word "warp" is not uttered a single time in "Pen Pals"!

    I can think of just two examples of such: "Pen Pals" and "Homeward". And in the former, nobody actually suggests sitting back and watching the Dremans die; it's merely a case of Picard calling for a philosophical debate on what they are about to do before they actually get on with it, lest anybody think that the PD could be automatically and categorically ignored.

    As for "Homeward", the lack of technological sophistication or awareness of interstellar politics by the Boraalans is never mentioned as affecting Picard's decision not to interfere, one way or the other.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Wrong.

    Picard was going to allow them to die until he heard the little girls' pleas for help.
     
  20. sariel2005

    sariel2005 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2009
    He insists that the Boraalans not become aware of the Federation even at the point that they are all going to die in a few hours, otherwise why send Worf down in disguise. He tells watches what he thinks is the destruction of the Boraalans after being offered a viable alternative to save them and makes a statement about honouring the prime directive and is tells Nikoli he has destroyed his career by saving them.
    As an aside I still find it hilarious that he sees that the Chronicler who killed himself and says that he would not have died alone and in fear on the planet. Personally I think he would probably have been pretty scared.