TMP on Blu-Ray

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Flake, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. jpv2000

    jpv2000 Captain Captain

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    Agreed. I loved the longer televised version. I used to own it on VHS, until I wore it our by re-watching it so much.
     
  2. RyanKCR

    RyanKCR Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I know that was the way it was in the original series but TMP was my first real exposure to Star Trek so I didn't have that expectation. The voice has the same kind of feel, for me, as the male computer voice that was doing the narration on the earlier Tomorrowland Transit Authority ("Now approaching....") at Walt Disney World. For me, it has the futuristic fantastic feel (that is a better description then I used above."
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just don't see it, honestly.

    The characters are a little older and the visuals are updated (though still surprisingly recognizable) but I never thought that it needed "familiarity".
     
  4. GalaxyX

    GalaxyX Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So as usual, it sounds like Paramount are just being a bunch of cheap penny pinching cocks.

    I'm glad CBS is doing all the remasterings now. Paramounts needs to jump in a lake.
     
  5. borgboy

    borgboy Commodore Commodore

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    I am still bitter about the blu rays being just the theatrical versions and not the superior director's cuts.
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not bitter, but it would be nice to see. It'll probably happen eventually.
     
  7. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    A version of the Director's Edition would be achievable, but I don't think it necessarily be easy to achieve. It certainly wouldn't be cheap.

    It's a shame the DE never got the theatrical release that was rumored for it at the time. Because if it had, they'd have had to strike up a film negative to work from, and that would have made a Blu Ray release a whole lot easier now.

    I dispute the contention that the Director's Cut of anything is 'superior'. Certainly in the case of TWOK there's nothing IMO in the so-called 'Director's Edition' which puts it above the theatrical cut. Quite the reverse, I think the additions are entirely superfluous. I'm glad the theatrical cut is the only one on Blu Ray. ;)
     
  8. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My primary frustration with the the DE is that it's a half-measure, and not the much tighter/shorter cut Wise originally intended and indeed discussed in 1980. The fan wanky additions and disregard for the original VFX artists' work and intent only makes it worse.
     
  9. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    You always say this and it ends up being argued back-and-forth so that I've stopped caring. It's enough for me the DE is a so much more enjoyable experience than any other version I've seen before. No, it's not perfect, but that's mostly because what needs to be fixed can't be because we can't go back in time and get a needed rewrite to add more character drama.

    Getting the DE on Blu-Ray should be a non-issue for you because you hate the thing anyway.
     
  10. Robert Comsol

    Robert Comsol Commodore Commodore

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    There'd be an easy solution available in the Blu-ray format to make almost everybody happy (i.e. seamless branching).

    Theoretically you could have all different versions on one Blu-ray disc and simply choose the version of your preference in the main menu.

    The lower resolution of the VFX in the DE must not necessarily be an issue, once we consider we have plenty of out-of-perfect-focus scenes in the current HD theatrical version of TMP, too, which at times look like standard definition. ;)

    Bob
     
  11. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Agreed.

    All the Trek DC's are inferior to the theatrical releases, particularly TMP and TWOK.

    In the age of the home video re-release, there seems to be a prevailing "oh, it's longer, it must be better" attitude. It's almost like collectors feel they're getting shortchanged in some way if they don't own every second of available footage. Pacing for the sake of the movie's best artistic intent is forgotten.

    This isn't always the case of course, the extended version of The Abyss is significantly superior for instance. But I've found in general, extended versions at best add a few minutes of fluff, but more often than not, needlessly sour the final product to varying degrees.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2013
  12. Lance

    Lance Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    While I do respect your opinion (and even understand it, I know how much TMP in particular does mean to you :)), it is an entirely subjective stance. There are always going to be other people out there who feel that the DE has short-changed 'their' favorite moment or scene, which means it clearly isn't a more enjoyable experience for them. You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time. ;)

    Myself, I take a clear middle road in these discussions, avoiding liking or disliking any particular version of TMP over another. In my view, there is nothing in the DE of The Motion Picture which is inherently superior or inferior to the theatrical edition..... it's simply a different presentation of what is at brass tacks the same basic product from 1979. The DE is an alternative but *not* a replacement, if you will. :D

    As I say, it's entertaining to see alternative takes on things. What bugs me is when discussions on the internet go down the road of "Oh, this version of the movie is better than that version", when to my mind the differences are often.... negligable.

    Certainly I feel the theatrical cut of any movie should always be the canon text. Whatever misgivings a director might have had about it, the mentality of going 'back in time' (as Bob Wise himself put it in 2002) is unhelpful, in that one's opinions change over time. The Bob Wise who worked on the DE is a different Bob Wise to the man who directed it, no doubt he came at it with ideas that his 1970s self may not have presented (putting aside additions made to the DE by people other than Wise himself). Another appropriate (if somewhat obvious) example: the George Lucas who recut the Star Wars trilogy in the mid-1990s was not the same man who birthed them in the 1970s. Many of his decisions overstepped the mark from being restorations of an original 'vision', to being something he intended to replace the originals with.

    That's the mentality which disturbs me the most. This gut reaction people have to instantly accept the additions to the DE as being somehow a more 'pure' version of the movie, when to my mind they're the exact opposite of that. :shifty:
     
  13. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

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    Actually it would be pretty cheap. The CGI assets still exist. They just have to assemble a team for a while to re-do them.
    Most of the assets are in the hands of the artists that did them. They took the files home when Foundation closed its doors. It's been well known that Darren Dochterman is ready, willing, and able to do the DE in 1080p for years now. He's talked about it repeatedly in his blog circa 2009 when the theatrical Blu-ray's were released.

    According to Darren Dochterman, there is a newer DE cut of the film with color correction changes made, etc. It's presumed to just be sitting in a vault somewhere.

    It quite frankly comes down the fact that Paramount doesn't give a damn about the Trek back catalogue it has. Heck, it barely cares about the "cool kids" Abrams versions on home video.
     
  14. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I could point out a lot of things "you always say" and be just as dismissive of your opinions. Sauce, Mr. Gander?
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I remember a theatrical version with some truly horrible unfinished visual and audio f/x as well as far too long visual sequences, most particularly the Vger fly-over. The DE got rid of most of what I disliked and fixed many audio issues I had. It also added some character bits back in which was all that could be done since it was impossible to go back in time and shoot a rewritten script for more character dynamic and drama.

    Are they the choices Robert Wise would have made back in '79 given enough time? Maybe not, but then he couldn't go back in time and redo it or finish it off. His own perceptions as well as those that worked on the new cut were influenced by more than twenty years of what had come along since TMP first bowed. Creative decisions made today will be different than more than twenty years prior simply because you have an additional two decades of influence and experience colouring one's creative outlook.

    I can't help but compare the TMP DE with TOS-R. I think the TMP DE came far, far closer to feeling like what we could have gotten originally given sufficient time to edit the film as Robert Wise intended. I cannot say that TOS-R looks or feels anything like what could have been done under the best of circumstances when TOS was in production. None of the new sequences look like what 1960's state-of-the-art feature film f/x could have done back in the day. Rather we have contemporary middle-of-the-road cgi f/x that (in my opinion) clash horribly with the remaining live action footage.

    Of course, I voted with my dollar and after sampling TOS-R I simply choose not to reward CBS by buying it. In like manner you don't like the TMP DE then you simply don't have to buy it whether on DVD or if it ever makes it to Blu-Ray. Simple.

    Yes, I have certainly bitched and moaned about a lot of things I don't like in Trek, to the point I was even getting tired of repeating myself. I'm never going to convince anyone of anything particularly on the internet. I've learned since that when I see praise for something I have little to no regard for I mostly (usually) roll my eyes and move on to something more interesting. And when I feel I need to make a remark I try to couch it in terms that (while expressing my disagreement and displeasure) will not likely start an argument.
     
  16. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

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    To set the record straight, I don't "hate" the DE. There are edits in it I like, but overall I find it a middling mediocrity (there's a Dr. Smith phrase if ever there was one). :)
     
  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Fair enough.
     
  18. Grant

    Grant Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The solution of seamless branching is too feasible and too logical and too justified to get anybody's attention---except it's just easier to argue about what cut is better. Seamless branching is a winner for all camps but a lot of folks only want their camp to win.
     
  19. J.T.B.

    J.T.B. Rear Admiral Premium Member

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    It seems to me that if there is only one version "out there" in a particular format it should be the original theatrical version. That's the one that established the baseline, good or bad, for everything that came after. Yes TMP had difficulties in its production, and maybe with more time... But that's part of its history. We have seen with many other movies that the more time passes the more interest becomes historical and the more value placed on the original.
     
  20. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Grant, for me, it genuinely isn't a case of "wanting my camp to win". I prefer the theatrical, and simply offer my opinion on what I view as an opinion based Star Trek message board. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Reference a seamless branching disc, you're absolutely right. In fact, as a collector, I'd love to have all three versions of the film in that format.

    The poster boy for this is the superlative BD release of Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, which contains the theatrical, special edition and Director's cut via SB.