Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Makarov, Sep 10, 2013.
How do we know that time travel wasn't responsible for the divergence of the Mirror Unvierse?
But they use the same term ("Alternate reality") to describe the new movie universe (created by time travel) as they did to describe the mirror universe (more likely a spontaneous divegence as described by Data in the clip from "Parallels" I posted above ("For any event there are an infinite number of probable outcomes... anything that can happen, does happen, in alternate quantum realities"). Since the mirror universe doesn't overwrite the prime one, and Mirror-T'Pol described the Prime universe as "an alternate reality", it stands to reason that the term "alternate reality" descibes the non-overwriting parallel kind.
Remember it's fiction. They can change the rules if they want. I enjoy the novels that continue the prime universe and according to the writers of the movie and the novel DTI: Watching the Clock, they co-exist in the Trek multiverse. It's good enough for me.
We don't, but that doesn't mean you can use that excuse to justify thinking it was.
Nope - this is movies, not the relatively settled environment of TV. Cast will move on and the core of the franchise will change. People may be killed off, spin offs to replace the core franchise may be required...
I can appreciate that. But this seems to be a play on words that suits your needs.
T'Pol knew there was a different universe. She saw it in the computer.
All our new TOS heroes know is that their destiny has been changed.
I think I just established that it's a possibility. And if the MU was established that way and is an alternate timeline then I've just strengthened the case for the recent films being set in an alternate timeline.
In THIS timeline, the original remains unchanged.
You have no proof of that seer.
No time travel in trek has ever created a different timeline.
If the changes were subtle enough, you'd never know if it did...
Abrams and co specifically said that this was an ALTERNATE timeline, but I didn't change to old one. It was their way of rebooting and doing new stuff without having to say that everything that happened in the last 50 years of franchise history didn't count.
'City on the Edge of Forever'. Spock is even using the Tricorder to see the changes resulting in the alternate timeline.
'Parallels' proves that alternate timelines exist and diverge ad infinitum. Multiple Universe Theory plays out that every decision causes a split in the timeline that creates a new universe.
'First Contact' changes Zephram Cochrane, who talks about a future with Robotic Zombies. One could say the universe Picard and crew returned to in the 24th Century was no longer the Prime Universe.
@ Yanks - I would suggest the history of Star Trek (all encompassing) abounds with different / alternate timelines - and Abrams' movies are in keeping with this Trek tradition.
And we've never seen red matter black hole time travel before, so it's not a problem if it creates a branching timeline in STXI. Also see this graphic.
It sure looked like the same universe to me. There's no evidence anything was changed there either.
I'd say that it's unclear whether the events of FC are:
A) a predestination paradox
B) events that all occur within the same timeline
C) events that occur across multiple timelines
Actually it's spelled out explicitly in canon. From "Relativity" ...
DUCANE: The Pogo Paradox.
SEVEN: A causality loop in which interference to prevent an event actually triggers the same event.
DUCANE: Excellent. Can you give me an example?
SEVEN: The Borg once travelled back in time to stop Zefram Cochrane from breaking the warp barrier. They succeeded, but that in turn led the Starship Enterprise to intervene. They assisted Cochrane with the flight the Borg was trying to prevent. Causal loop complete.
DUCANE: So, in a way, the Federation owes its existence to the Borg.
SEVEN: You're welcome.
First Contact, Enterprise, TNG, DS9 and Voyager all occur in the same reality. Anything else is just a fanon conspiracy theory.
Except that my brain rejects the idea of a predestination paradox, no matter how hard I tried to force it on it.
Predestination paradoxes don't exist in the Orciverse. So Voyager is wrong.
More to the point, we have no idea whether the events of "Relativity" are themselves occurring in an alternate timeline because it's only discussed subjectively.
In other words, while they exist in a timeline in which the Borg interfered with "First Contact", we don't know whether it was the Borg of their timeline that interfered or whether it was Borg from a different timeline that did so. And if you believe that when you travel into the past you jump tracks, then the latter must be the case.
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