Things you liked about voyager

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by KaraBear, Aug 19, 2013.

  1. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Exactly.

    The sorts of activities a child would want to participate in were, in Seven's eyes, irrelevant.
     
  2. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    her social development was still that of a child, being rude, acting on implulse not considering other people's feelings. that's how a child is. She might not want to "play" but she was still a child mentally in some ways
     
  3. Enow

    Enow Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I liked Voyager the best of all Star Trek series because of the shared goal of the crew in getting home, and to get home, it requires pulling together, their resources and experiences, to increase the odds for survival for all of them in trying to get home, no matter how bleak the outcome was for them reaching home in their lifetime.

    I liked the fact that they took the time to stop along the way to smell the roses, so to speak for space exploration.
     
  4. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Frankly, I think it's amazing that Seven developed as much as she did, given that Janeway clearly thought of her as a piece of equipment, relegating her to the cargo bay, where she had not the least semblance of privacy. People walked in & out as if she wasn't there.

    As to the examples you cite, does her motivation mean anything?

    1. Decking Harry & contacting the Borg: she'd been on the ship less than a week & wanted to go home.

    2. Sending 8472 to the Hirogen: As she said to Janeway, "A lesson in compassion is little use if we are dead."

    3. Dragon's Teeth: She said that she had participated in the destruction of civilizations and that helping to resurrect one was gratifying.

    Looks like a progression to me.

    And none of it resembles the motivations of a child.

    Except, perhaps, the first. Except that going home was also the motivation for Janeway & the rest of the crew...
     
  5. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    her general behavior did resmble that of a child. considering that she was assimilated at 9 that makes sense.

    as far as the cargo bay...did she want privacy? did she ask for it? did she ask for he own quarters?
    I don't think she thought of her as a piece of equipment, she loved her. That was the point of Endgame
     
  6. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, she was assimilated at 6 or 7.

    And no. I don't think her behavior resembled that of a child.

    Did she know that she could?

    In "Human Error," she wasn't offered quarters until her implants were removed. This holodeck fantasy says a great deal about where Seven felt she belonged. She didn't think she deserved quarters because she wasn't "fully human."

    People can love other people and still have preconceptions & prejudiced opinions about them.
     
  7. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    ok at 6 then, which makes her even more of a child.

    Human error was entirely a holodeck program, her "offer" of quarters was within the program
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Sorry for the late reply, but I just woke up an hour ago.

    I prefer purchasing the product to build a personal library, especially when it comes to science fiction. I haven't done a video rental since 1990. It's the same reason I won't do Netflix.

    It's also a reason I have trouble keeping money in the bank since discovering the used music/video store nearby. This month alone, I'd bought Inception, the 2 Superman serials starring Kirk Alyn, the 1st season of George Reeves' Superman, and TOS: The Menagerie. :lol:

    BACK ON TOPIC:

    Catching up on the Seven discussion--

    In some ways, it's like she's the classical soldier in enemy territory, who is essentially forced by Janeway to join their side. Even if she tries to return, whether by choice or not, Janeway keeps pulling her back in until she's closer to realizing humanity. Eventually, she becomes what was once her enemy. Instead of resisting Janeway, she begins resisting the Borg.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2013
  9. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Seven designed the holodeck program. It shows the way she thinks about herself & her relationships with others.

    Most clearly, it shows that she thinks of herself as not fully human and not deserving of the things she desires (quarters, privacy, companionship) until she is "fully human." The tragic thing about that is that she never will be.

    This is hardly a child's development.

    I think we often have a tendency to look at people in terms of age, and not look at them in terms of who they are on their own terms.

    This is all, of course, my opinion. I hope you'll forgive me that it differs from yours.
     
  10. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I do think that's a closer analogy than simply saying that Seven's development ended at the age she was assimilated & that therefore she starts from that point.

    ETA: Jeri has said she's heard from people who were abused as children who appreciate her performance as Seven, who relate to the character, because the issues she deals with are much the same as theirs.
     
  11. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

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    obviously it's all opinion. it's not something to be "forgiven" for. It's good that we have different opinions, that way we can discuss things.
     
  12. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always thought it was funny how Janeway and the Borg Queen both wanted to shape Seven in their own image, each blaming the other side for her failings, yet both failed to grasp for better or worse she was a hybrid between the Borg and human cultures. They always saw her as they wanted to see her and not as she was. Kinda sad really, she had to chose between who's objectifying her less.
     
  13. teya

    teya Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yep. And the Doctor wanted to create his ideal woman.

    This was why I liked the interaction between Chakotay and Seven in "Survival Instinct." He didn't tell her what to think. He talked her through the issue & let her come to her own conclusion.

    Like the unique adult she is.

    ETA: And look at that! This is something I liked about Voyager. Nothing like being occasionally on topic. :guffaw:
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wasn't that the exactly same Cargo Bay where Chakotay murdered 40 or so drones?

    And Seven built her house on it.
     
  15. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe she thought that Voyager would eventually jettison her too. She did make a determined effort to stay alive in the open Jeffries tube when the cargo deck was depressurized in Scorpion.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I suppose that since she knows how they will kill her with that room, that she's steeled herself against further attempts at her doom there in in there.

    If she's not an idiot, Anika would have spent the first week rewiring the place so that it was her dog.
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always wondered why they were so vulnerable to being suck-- I mean blown-- into space in Scorpion when they seemed to have magnetic boots and be immune to vacuum in First Contact.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It was the rush dragging them out.

    Possibly, Chakotay could have polarized the deck plating which would have confused the Borg footware?

    If there was a button to empty the cargo bay, rather than that they overrode every safety in the book, cancelling any and all magnetic locks or seals would just be sensible option depending on how completely they want to clean the place up.
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Completely agree.

    7 is never going to be easily labeled with an age other than physical, and even then she's Borg enhanced. She has had a very complicated existence that neither she or anyone else on board completely understand. It's not like she was in stasis for all those years, she retains much of her Borg life.

    I think she suffers more from never having been a child of 7, 8, 9.. and a teenager than from purportedly being one because she was assimilated at 6.

    Assimilated, grown in a vat, and then had her brain dumped with millions of individuals pains and experiences. She is not a child and she can never be a child again.
     
  20. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Bravo. That is the tragedy of the character. Not her emotional immaturity that compares her to my niece. :techman: As if it was somehow her fault. How sad the Borg purged her understanding of your emotions of understanding because it was fucking irrelevant. Blame the victim.