"They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon Bird

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Shat Happens, Dec 19, 2013.

  1. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon Bird of Prey is any match for the Federation flagship."

    No, Picard, they were working of their cunning plan to take your ship down, and in case you didn't notice, they succeded. Also with that same 20-year old spaceship (which isn't that much older than your 8-year one).

    Picard doesn't respect his enemy. Oh the irony. And I dont see why the Klingons love him so much. Anyway, so much for the Enterprise-D.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    It made me very sad to watch it go down in such a shitty manner. I'm still angry about it twenty-plus years later.

    Maybe it wouldn't have stung so much for so long if the Enterprise-E didn't look like a complete piece of garbage.
     
  3. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Even with the Geordi as a Trojan horse, I think it could have been save had someone more competent had sat at the helm.

    Alas, if only Wesley was still on board.
     
  4. Dick_Valentine

    Dick_Valentine Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    ^Equal favourite ship along with the Defiant, cheers :p

    It would've been nice to see it go out all guns blazing, instead of getting off one phaser shot and firing a "full spread" of ONE photon torpedo!

    DS9's USS Odyssey got a much punchier demse, she was holding her own against 3 Jem H'adar bugs with no shields, the finale of the legendary Enterprise-D should've gone down a lot more like that, death by a thousand cuts type of thing, instead of one big battle.

    But oh well, it gave us the Enterprise-E and the famous name has never looked better so, swings and roundabouts ;) :techman:
     
  5. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    The Enterprise is a character and her destruction shouldn't have been simply shrugged off. It would be like if they'd killed Picard and the movie ended with the crew saying, "Oh, well, we can always get a new captain."
     
  6. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Commodore Commodore

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Enterprise-D was an important character in TNG and if they were, in fact, committed to destroying her, she deserved at least as much respect as Kirk gave his Enterprise, as it went down in a blaze of glory. Riker's comment on "she went before her time," was not at all satisfactory in this regard! Is that all he has to say? Even Data's "Oh ... Shit!!!" comment, as unexpectedly funny as it was (and I must concede that it was) seemed to cheapen her demise. The "D" was very elegant, stately and as iconic as the original was in TMP. But ... that's what I deserve, I suppose, for being a sentimental fan of this beloved franchise.
     
  7. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    It's odd that for as long as he ran the franchise, Rick Berman never really seemed to get what was important to fans.
     
  8. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    OK, now I lol'd :lol:
     
  9. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Yeah, do we know what was up with that? :confused: Did ILM make a mistake with the opticals? Did they not read the script? I would assume the line "Full Spread" implies something more spectacular.

    See, this is the thing. The Enterprise being taken down isn't really the issue. It's that she goes down in such a lame way. We'd already seen better battles on the TNG tv series!
     
  10. Shat Happens

    Shat Happens Captain Captain

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    That's it, those cheapasses in charge wouldn't pay ILM do do a nice battle for them.

    They reused the Bird of Prey explosion from the last movie. (It would be funny if Kirk saw the explosion from somewhere and said "I already saw that!")

    Funny thing is, nowadays CGI battles are cheap as bananas -- but I don't care anymore. I sleep thru JJ's things.
     
  11. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Blame Brannon Braga for the lame ass way the ENT-D went down. He wanted a scene where the saucer section was crashing on a planet. He says this on the GEN commentary with Ronald D. Moore. The saucer section crash was something he had planned to for the finale season 6 of TNG. In season 7 the TNG crew would've just gotten another Galaxy class with the name ENT-E. The destruction of the D was a means to an ends (no pun intended).

    You can also blame Rick Berman and Ronald D Moore for Kirk and Picard making eggs and riding horses. Braga wanted Kirk and Picard doing action hero shit on their respective ships against Soran. Listening to the GEN commentary you get the impression that Braga, Moore and Berman did not want to do what people expected, and instead strove to do things unexpected and off beat. It's outside of the box thinking yes, but sometimes the box is their for a reason.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2013
  12. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    In a way it was Jeri Taylor's fault because she was the one that actually encouraged them to do something off beat. Originally the introduction of the Enterprise was supposed to be heroic. We see the station get attacked by Romulans, suddenly the Enterprise sweeps in to save the day. Jeri Taylor then said "that's boring, you should do something more off beat and quirky, make it fun". Thus, our introduction to the TNG crew on the big screen is a holodeck program of the old sailing ship with everyone in costume. From then on, Moore and Braga kept up with Taylor's advice of going for the unexpected, off beat kind of thing. It's ironic, cause Beverly tells Data "live in the moment, do something unexpected" and when Data tries (pushing her into the water) it's a failure.
     
  13. M.A.C.O.

    M.A.C.O. Commodore Commodore

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    ^ AH. I knew Jeri Taylor had input but I had no idea it was like that. It's also ironic considering how much action VOY had on it. VOY has tons of disposable action but a pay for view movie has very little? Why did they listen to her? With a movie you need to have rewatch value.
     
  14. GameOn

    GameOn Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    Yeah Voyager had so much needless action that hardly ever served the plot. I think the biggest mistake they made was leaving the TNG movies in the hands of the people behind the TV shows.
     
  15. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    To be fair, most of Voyager's "needless" action came along after she was gone.
     
  16. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    They left off a zero - that Bird of Prey is the same type Kirk and company went back in time with, and virtually identical (longer wings, fewer disruptor banks) to the type Arik Soong and his Augments stole a century before that - and that one looked just as rusty and worn out as the ones in TNG/DS9 did! I guess we were supposed to pretend it looked different.

    As for the Enterprise-D, my jaw was on the floor when it was destroyed... in "Time Squared". After episodes like "Cause and Effect" and "All Good Things" I was completely bored of the Enterprise-D exploding. And besides, it looked like a pleasure yacht on the outside and an 80 hotel on the inside.
     
  17. Jeyl

    Jeyl Commodore Commodore

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I love those theories that they wanted to destroy the Enterprise D because it just didn't hold up well on the theatrical screen. Well, that kind of thing will happen when you have a TV show effects crew working with a fudge ugly 4f model and barely having it do anything. So when the time came to whoop out the 6ft model of the Enterprise D and shoot it in true movie fashion, I bet someone said "Uh, who said this ship wouldn't look good in a movie?"

    And seriously, I'd argue that the big D is more suited for movies than television. For one thing, the ship is very wide so that would fit perfectly with the theatrical widescreen ratio. Second, the tools used for making movie special effects give the ship a much richer and more detailed look. The opening reveal of the big D alone is quite memorable as it approaches the observatory, and the way the camera gets really close during the Klingon attack is astounding.
     
  18. inflatabledalek

    inflatabledalek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    One odd side affect of them listening to Taylor's advice on the opening, considering a large part of the intent of the film seems to have been to introduce the characters to casual movie goers who don't watch the show, is the very first thing these new viewers see the D crew do is fail. Completely and utterly, arriving too late to be of any use to the observatory staff killed by the Romulans. At least the original idea for the opening would have seen them fighting off the attackers.

    That then begins the theme of the movie of making Picard look as shit as it possibly can in comparison to Kirk.
     
  19. Rarewolf

    Rarewolf Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I believe it was inspired by the crash scenario in the TNG Technical Manual.

    I think I prefer the E though. It was the first time I had the anticipation of a new ship
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Re: "They're just trying to decide whether a twenty year-old Klingon B

    I thought the "D" was the best looking ship they ever put up on the big screen.
     

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