They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the movie

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by GalaxyX, Oct 21, 2013.

  1. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Old Kirk could have appeared during the mind meld in the first movie. It would have been brief but memorable.
     
  2. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    i was expecting Picard to be in that scene first time i saw it

    as for shatner i was half expecting something to be revealed when Kirk and Spock beamed over to the Narada (where they were basically going into the ‘Prime Universe’ and messing about with Next Generation/Prime stuff) - maybe when nuKirk is searching for Pike he sees a holo image of TWOK Shat Kirk on neros computer consol (Nero checking up on his adversary/brushing up on starfleet history from Spocks ship like in ‘Countdown‘– who Kirk is/what his thinking is like etc. it would’ve vaguely tied in with Kirk saying earlier that Nero would know what they were up to as they were part of his history so lets be unpredictable )

    just a throwaway thing – kirk would catch a fleeting glimpse of his alternate future before he gets his ass kicked
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    The problem is, that would have called attention to the recasting, like including a clip of Sean Connery in Casino Royale. Or including a clip of Katie Holmes in The Dark Knight.

    They got away with including Quinto and Nimoy in the same movie because the age differential was so extreme (Young Spock and Ancient Spock) that you could pretend that they were the same character, separated by a long lifetime of experience. But a shot of Shatner might strain our suspension of disbelief . . . .

    The conceit, remember, is that Kirk has always looked like actor currently playing him--which is why Old Spock recognizes him on sight.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  4. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    I had the same problem with The Hobbit. The camera would linger on characters from Lord of the Rings, with their familiar music cues, telling the audience, "Hey, remember THEM? Yeah, they're BACK!" Except, chronologically, this is supposed to be the first time we meet these characters.

    Frankly, this is my problem with many prequels* in general, in that they require knowledge of previous movies to work, rather than as stand alones that just happen to play with another movie's building blocks.

    *Not talking about the Abrams Trek films, though. They're not prequels.
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    No... just no. If NuTrek is supposed to be it's own thing.... let it be it's own thing and stop trying back to the "prime" universe at every conceivable opportunity.
     
  6. ralph

    ralph Captain Captain

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Shatner doesn´t want to make other character in Star Trek, except Kirk.
    Bill could be a distant relative of Kirk, a merchant. Not Mudd, of course.
     
  7. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    nuTrek hasn't stooped that low, but I feel that references as such is cut from the same cloth and I find it more annoying than a wink as film makers intended. Berman thought throwing in Riker and Troi would be a delight for fans, but we saw how that turned out. I feel the same about a Shatner cameo, especially when Chris Pine is trying to put his own stamp on Kirk. If there has to be callbacks, I'd prefer it to be restricted to this new timeline.
     
  8. YellowSubmarine

    YellowSubmarine Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    And space shuttle Discovery.
     
  9. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    I don't like recasting either but I make certain allowances if a different actor plays a much older or much younger version of a character and if the two look alike for the most part. In the case of Shatner and Pine, they're similar enough and the age gap is big enough that I could have accepted seeing them in the same movie.

    As for the Connery and Craig scenario you mentioned, that would have been too jarring since the two don't look alike and play significantly different versions of the character in different eras. And if Holmes were to appear in a shot in The Dark Knight, that would have been even more so because it would constitute blatant recasting and there's no age issue.

    Point is, if they did want to include Shatner in the first movie, I can't think of a better opportunity than that mind meld. Someone else actually brought it up years ago I liked it. I think something like that would have worked a lot better than having an actual scene with an older Kirk.
     
  10. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Agreed, especially since the powers that be are trying their best to make us like the current cast (which is redundant because they've won us over). I thought Nimoy's role in XI worked, but it was already a stretch -- Into Darkness was just superfluous.
     
  11. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Just to be clear, I have no problem with recasting, which is a long and honorable tradition in movies and television. I was just pointing out the structural difficulty of incorporating images of the previous actor in a film featuring the new one.

    Recasting is fine as long we all accept the conceit that, say, Jim Rhodes always looked like Don Cheadle, or that Darren Stevens always looked like Dick Sargent. But you probably don't want to shatter that illusion by reminding the viewer that, hey, this is what the other guy looked like, remember him?
     
  12. Galileo7

    Galileo7 Commodore Commodore

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Agree on all thoughts here.:vulcan:
     
  13. mymatty

    mymatty Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    They wrote an ending for the 2009 film that included a cameo for William Shatner, but he didn't want to be in the movie if it wasn't for a major role. Here it is:


    http://trekmovie.com/2009/11/23/read-the-star-trek-2009-scene-written-for-william-shatner/
     
  14. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    This post reminds me of the TV Trope page on this matter
     
  15. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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  16. Agent Richard07

    Agent Richard07 Admiral Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    With Back to the Future, you could argue that changes to the timeline resulted in his girlfriend looking different. The only thing you'd have to ignore is the reshot scene.

    Now that's the kind of recasting that bugs me.

    Fair enough.

    I heard about that end scene. Sounds better than I thought it would be. And I thought that Shatner turned it down but the article states that they didn't even ask him because they heard that he didn't do cameos.
     
  17. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    no ones digs my Deadly Years re-imagined opening?:confused:
     
  18. Ovation

    Ovation Vice Admiral Admiral

    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    I found it amusing and wouldn't mind seeing it but I consider it unlikely as I doubt they'd want to make the Romulan presence, if there is one at all, that minor. But as Shatner will not be in the next film, the point is moot.
     
  19. Cyke101

    Cyke101 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Wow. I doubt it would have quelled the uproar over the 2009 movie, but it addressed Kirk's rapid ascendancy to captain (Kirk Prime: Do I have to prove to the crew that I deserve their respect?), really put a cap on the theme of a new journey, and it evokes the amazing intro about birth and life -- It would have been neat to see baby Kirk at the beginning and then "Emeritus Years" Kirk (great line, by the way) at the end.

    One pet peeve of mine was that we didn't see the ramifications of the Kobayashi Maru test and Kirk's commendation. That ending would have shown it.

    Also, it's neat to note that that means Spock got his ambassadorship after TUC, but I suppose that makes sense for it to be part of the aftermath of that movie, but before Generations.
     
  20. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: They really should have found a way to get Shatner on one of the m

    Eh, the whole destiny angle would have been my biggest gripe of that cameo. That Young Spock and Kirk only become friends because Future Spock tells them both its their destiny to be friends, rather than having the two young characters actually discover that together through their adventures.