They are going ahead with a Justice League movie

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jun 6, 2012.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The objection in this case would be from the left. Historically, there's been great prejudice against nonwhite actors in Hollywood; they've been systematically excluded over the decades, either by having nonwhite characters rewritten as white or having them played by white actors in makeup. So while recasting a white character as nonwhite, as with Heimdall in Thor or Perry White in the upcoming Man of Steel, is seen as a progressive move, a correction of decades of discrimination. That's something the left would be fine with but that provokes outrage from people uncomfortable with racial diversity. Conversely, casting a white actress as a character who's always been black would be seen as perpetuating that tradition of discrimination and would outrage the left.

    Remember, even today we're still getting nonwhite actors excluded from roles they should be getting -- the main characters in The Last Airbender and Starship Troopers, Ra's al Ghul and Bane in the Batman movies, etc. There's still a lot of prejudice, a lot of executives who assume movies with nonwhite leads can't make a profit. We're far from achieving sufficient racial neutrality in Hollywood that casting white-for-black and black-for-white can be treated as equal and interchangeable choices. It would be great if we were at such a point, but we're nowhere near it.
     
  2. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Are you implying that Liam Neeson and Tom Hardy were cast because they are white and not because they are good actors that fit the roles?
     
  3. It's Christmastime Again - Kai "the spy"

    It's Christmastime Again - Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So, what you're saying is, there would be some outrage, but ultimately, nobody cares?! So, what's the problem?
    I mean, I can understand outrage over the non-Asian cast of The Last Airbender, but with Amanda Waller, race isn't a crucial part of the character.
    Also, seriously, Waller is more of a villain character, and since I already cast the main villain with Keith David, wouldn't it seem even more racist if the other villainous character of the movie was also black?!

    Besides, I'd make up for it by casting CCH Pounder as the US president. :angel:
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    That's not even remotely what I'm saying and I have no clue how you could possibly have interpreted my words in that way. Of course people care, and they should care. There's still a lot of active racism and unthinking discrimination that should and must be fought.


    As I keep saying, it's not about the characters. The concern is for the actors who are trying to get good jobs in Hollywood but being deprived of opportunities because they aren't white enough. This isn't about characters, but about real live human beings and whether they have fair employment opportunities.


    I don't think so, since you do include John Stewart as one of the main heroes. Also, Waller isn't a strictly villainous role. She's a complex, ambiguous, important character, the kind that would be a plum in any actor's resume.
     
  5. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Eh, if you include his CCH as President role, that's 3 out of 10 characters he's castng that are black. The US Population is less than 30% black. Anyone crying (in this specific case of casting) of unfair opportunity for Blacks is just whining and wanting more than what's fair. The Asians and Hispanics are the ones who should be up in arms with this casting, not the Blacks
     
  6. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Believe what you want. But the fact remains, if you cast a white actress as Waller, it's the left that would be upset and the right that would be fine with it. At least let's be clear on who the players are.
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's the problem with that setup: no introduction to those 4 more heroes at all. And that's how this would fail, and why The Avengers was a success. Each of the heroes already had his/her intro in previous movies, and the audiences liked them.
     
  8. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Oh, I'm not saying there would be no complaints of unfair opportunities for Blacks, I'm saying they would be unreasonable in a case where 3 out of 10 roles were cast with Black actors
     
  9. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    The thing people seem to be missing is that team movies have been done before Avengers and will be done after Avengers without separate intro movies for the team members. It's just that most other team movies don't portray super powers.

    Hell, the "gather the team" storyline is a tradition in some genres like westerns. I think DC can make it work.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Good point. The Seven Samurai, The Dirty Dozen, Ocean's Eleven -- there are tons of movies about assembling a team of protagonists the audience has no prior familiarity with. There are even superhero examples, like Mystery Men and The Incredibles.
     
  11. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    Mystery Men might not be the best example considering it was a bit of a failure, hehe. Though I actually enjoyed it.
     
  12. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    They should absolutely reboot GL, and yeah, that version, not so great. But laying it on Bassett? Foolish. She's a great actress with a commanding presence. GL was rife with hack writing and poor direction. She did was she could with...well...shit.
     
  13. It's Christmastime Again - Kai "the spy"

    It's Christmastime Again - Kai "the spy" Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't realize I was doing that.
     
  14. Captaindemotion

    Captaindemotion Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see how saying that her character is unmemorable is 'laying it on Bassett' for the movie's failure.
     
  15. FPAlpha

    FPAlpha Vice Admiral Admiral

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    But then again it needs rock solid writing and by the DC track record (excluding the Nolan Batman movies) i'm not so sure.

    Additionally it will inevitably be compared to the Marvel movies and their approach.. might even lead to more problems with the production when people start to ask wo the f.. Martian Manhunter or Wonder Woman is and why they didn't get their own movie before the Justice League.
     
  16. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, that question is a real pain. Not like the couldn't go with the obvious answer, "we wanted to do the team movie first".
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    To me, the question "Why didn't you do it like those other people did it?" provides its own answer. The fact that Marvel did it one way is the best possible reason for DC/Warner Bros. to do it a different way.
     
  18. Ian Keldon

    Ian Keldon Fleet Captain

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    The problems with that idea are many:

    1) WB/DC have no established track record of success to inspire audience confidence in the project to generate buzz. Outside of Supes and Bats no DC project has been considered a substantial success either economically or critically. Indeed, it's most recent attempt is widely held to be a resounding failure.

    That means they either have to tentpole the film on Supes & Bats (with everyone else being essentially walk-ons in terms of story focus) OR they have to run the huge risk of trying to draw people to these characters whom (if we are being brutally honest) have little or no recognition in the eyes of Joe Buttinseat.

    EVERY major character in Avengers already had good name recognition and posititve buzz from a prior movie success (with the possible exception of Hulk). Even Hawkeye's extremely limited showing in Thor drew a great deal of critical and fan approval.

    2) Marvel "went big" with Avengers. By your reasoning, DC should "go small" with Justice League, which will leave the audience wondering why all those super-powerful "superheroes" are doing very little in terms of daring-do.

    That would be X-Men 1 all over again: no "super" in the superhero movie, leaving the fans of the "BANG! POW! ZAP!" unsatisfied.

    On the other hand, they can hardly "go bigger" either. In terms of raw power, the JL has the Avengers dead to rights. There's a reason why they call the Seven a "pantheon". "Going bigger" runs the risk of taking JL into that "cosmic zone" of superherodom that the perceived failure of F4 1 and 2 and Green Lantern seem to indicate that the casual audience cannot relate to.

    So you want DC to take a bunch of untested characters, portrayed by unproven actors and try to craft a story that will appeal to Joe and Jane Buttinseat but also do justice to seven "gods on Earth" to appeal to the fanbase..that's a lot to pile onto one film with maybe a $250 million or so budget.
     
  19. Scroogourner

    Scroogourner Admiral Admiral

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    And yet, that's exactly what they are doing.
     
  20. theenglish

    theenglish Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Really though, X-men was a great movie. It was a lot of fun, did a great job of bringing these comic book characters into the "real world", and jump started the whole super-hero film trend.

    Justice League just needs solid writing and direction along with competent acting and it will be a success.