TheGodBen Revisits Enterprise

Discussion in 'Enterprise' started by TheGodBen, Sep 5, 2009.

  1. SFRabid

    SFRabid Commodore Commodore

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    I guess I stopped paying attention to physics back in TOS when I noticed that the ship's lasers fire at a spread of around 30 deg and then magically hit the target as a single beam. Since then there has been countless liberties taken in an effort to boost the story line and save production costs. Even though physics was my favorite subject in high school and college I try not to pay attention to the physics of entertainment TV.
     
  2. HopefulRomantic

    HopefulRomantic Phloxist Moderator Moderator

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    There are people who watch Star Trek for the science?

    :wtf:


    It depends on what you know, I suppose. I remember the year "ER" debuted, and I loved it, so I asked my brother (an MD) what he thought. He said he bailed on the pilot without even making it to the end, because the medicine was inaccurate. :(

    I'm not a doctor, or a scientist. But I love compelling stories and well-drawn characters. I think the idea is to make the Star Trek Science or the ER Medicine seem credible enough that the viewer can concentrate on the drama.
     
  3. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Oh, I don't watch for the science - it's just that every once in a while there's such an affront to the laws of physics that even I'm unable to get past it. A rogue planet, okay, universe is full of unknowns. A "loud noise" in space? Gravity on a comet? No. Just, no.

    Give me a compelling legal drama and I'm willing to suspend disbelief. Make me watch the average Boston Legal, Law and Order, or CSI episode, and I'm writing the defendant's appellate brief in my head for the whole hour.
     
  4. Lady Conqueror

    Lady Conqueror Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^I just go with the explanation that the properties of the mineral (can't remember the name of it) they found in the comet affected the gravity somehow. I think Malcolm might have been joking with his loud noise comment.
     
  5. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think you're right, that is the reason why T'Pol decided to stay, but that decision only makes sense because I've seen the later episodes and know about the darker side of T'Pol's nature, particularly her Trellium addiction. But when Breaking the Ice aired I had no clue why she decided to stay, and I don't think the writers did either.

    I don't watch it for the science, but it is best when the science makes sense. Besides, they had André Bormanis on the writing staff, although he was the science consultant that allowed Threshold to be made.

    However, I can accept the gravity on a comet thing because it was the biggest comet ever encountered by Humans or Vulcans and it had the magical mineral which could have been super dense. It could have had around 0.3g.

    Except then they showed the explosion with a big bang. I admit I found it a little stupid, but there has always been sound in space in Star Trek and it is just something you have to accept.


    Civilization (*½)

    Exactly, and that's why this episode is so dull. These aliens aren't unique or interesting, they have no characteristics that make them unique beyond their technology level. They don't even react interestingly when they find out that aliens walk among them and are mining the planet, Riann isn't phased by it at all. These are some of the most boring aliens I've ever seen on Star Trek.

    Dear gods, I loath that line. :rolleyes:

    So these aliens park their ship on the other side of the planet even though they have to fly a shuttle around it to collect crates every night? Makes sense.

    How? Where did you put it? Why didn't the Malurians just send another ship to destroy your puny Earth vessel? This is the embodiment of an episode where everything is neatly wrapped up by the end and Archer gets to fly off into the sunset as the hero of a civilisation. It's a TOS episode and an uninspired one at that.

    The Akaali aren't space-faring and it turns out that the Malurians were referenced in TOS as a species that Nomad killed, so neither race will be counted. Archer did go down to a planet when he didn't need to and ended up trapped in a cave and in a firefight, so I'll count that as 1. But he did manage to win a fistfight, which was very surprising! ;)

    Captain Redshirt: 6
     
  6. SFRabid

    SFRabid Commodore Commodore

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    The only thing that really bothered me in Enterprise was the plant life on the rogue planet. It was dark. All the time. But I also realize that it was probably done for budget restrictions. A lot of things are changed from the writer's script because of budget. Coming up with a planet covered with a fungus forest that can grow in the dark was probably beyond budget.
     
  7. SFRabid

    SFRabid Commodore Commodore

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    I think that was a very defining moment in why Star Trek is about exploration. We've had episodes where they encounter alien races that choose to explore by probes and stay on their home planet.

    Or they do that to hide from the Enterprise.

    Didn't they mention that the Vulcans would be watching after the planet?
     
  8. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    If we assume the comet is 100 km large (about 10 times as big as the largest comets in our Solar System), and consists entirely of Superheavyum, which has a density thrice that of Uranium, and we assume it's a perfect sphere, then we still end up with
    Volume: 4/3xpix50000=5,23x10^14 m^3
    Mass: 5,23x10^14x57000=2,98x10^19 kg
    So the surface gravity would be: Gx2,98x10^19/50000^2= 0,80 m/s^2. That's 0,081 g. Travis and Reed would be about 6,5 kilos each, and this is assuming a whole set of unlikely conditions.

    Anyway, I shouldn't let it bother me so much that I start making these calculations.

    I also really liked Civilization.

    EDIT: With that amount of gravity, the comet couldn't have a tail. If the comet was made of Superheavyum, it wouldn't be a comet either, as they are made of ice and junk. My calculatioons are likely 100 or 1000 times too high.
     
  9. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Civilization was generic Trek, nothing really surprising or exciting about it. With all these incredibly human-like aliens I really wish someone would express amazement at how similar aliens are to us. To be honest, I suspect that Archer and co. could have gone down to the planet without alien make-up and the aliens would probably have simply thought they were a little funny-looking.

    That said, this episode deserves an extra point for how good Linda Park looked as an alien. Oh my...
     
  10. Count Zero

    Count Zero Says who? Moderator

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    Yep, they did. Actually, Riann herself raises the question about the other aliens coming back.

    And Jolene Blalock. I'm not normally impressed by other women but I thought she looked really beautiful with the long hair and the pointy ears.

    Well, I really liked Civilization. The production design was stunning in its details. Sure, it's nothing special or spectacular but it was a nice episode.
     
  11. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Exploration is fine, there's nothing wrong with them wanting to explore new worlds, but I loath the attitude that Archer has where he is willing to risk screwing up society on a planet because of his desire to explore. Pre-warp civilisations should be off-limits for this sort of exploration until several months or years of preparation has been done, otherwise you could have a situation like season 2's The Communicator where they actually did alter a society's development just because Archer and co wanted to explore. It is too much of a risk.

    Well that will teach me not to make unqualified guesses in the future. :lol: I was a little off with that 0.3g thing, wasn't I?


    Fortunate Son (***½)

    As with The Andorian Incident, the best thing about this episode is the universe-building. Boomers are interesting and watching them react to the increased presence of Starfleet vessels in "their" space opens up tonnes of possibilities to be explored. One of the best areas that Enterprise can explore (in my opinion) is human society during this period of history, and one of the things I'm upset about is the fact that we never get to fully understand the boomers. Are they flying between human colonies? Are they trading with aliens? How does the interstellar community view them? Do other alien races have equivalent cargo-ships?

    But the worst part about this episode is Ryan whose stubbornness and intransigence removes the subtlety to this morally ambiguous situation. The fact is that Ryan's position is just as valid as Archer's, if the Nausicans are willing to attack and steal from human ships then human ships have a right to strike back. I don't like the idea of humans killing others but it is hard for me to argue against what I would consider self-defence. The problem with Fortunate Son is that it barely acknowledges this side of the argument before judging it as wrong, and Ryan is such an unsympathetic and annoying character that it is hard to root for him.

    There are shades of grey here, but they're very, very, very dark and very, very, very bright, almost indistinguishable from black and white.
     
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Real Me Premium Member

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    The Boomers do trade with human colonies and Aliens.(Travis mention trips to Drayax and the Vega Colony) I think we see some Klingon cargoships in the series. I'm sure the intersteller views them the way they view all traders. Probably based what reputations human traders have established.
     
  13. SFRabid

    SFRabid Commodore Commodore

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    Fortunate Son came across to me as filler that did nothing to further the series. What story there was is lost in the aggravation caused by the stubborn first mate.
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Cold Front (***½)

    That was the full ending of that scene, but as we've established, Bakula liked to keep creative control over the Archer character and he didn't like where that scene went so they just filmed the egg bit. It makes a lot more sense now, eh? :)

    Anywho... Cold Front is a fun action-adventure episode which builds on Broken Bow by giving us some answers yet maintaining the mystery. That is a good thing yet it also undermines the whole episode because the Tasty Coma Wife ends up not meaning anything and it never did. Does anything in this episode matter? Maybe, Enterprise might have been destroyed had it not been for Silik's actions, but would Silik stealing Daniel's computer mean anything? Probably not.

    It is nice to have some friendly aliens rather than a group of hostile jerks. I don't think we get a name for the aliens in this episode so I wont count them, but Archer did get beaten by Silik.

    Archer Abuse: 5

    Actually, that fight was a little odd because Trip said Silik was on B-deck, then Silik climbed up, so wouldn't he have been on A-deck, on the bridge? :confused: Am I paying too much attention to things?

    :guffaw::guffaw::guffaw:
     
  15. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Ah, the fabled Suliban! Bit comic book, aren't they? Can't say this episode did much for me, but the bit where Daniels showed Archer all the stuff that was going on across time was quite something.
     
  16. cylkoth

    cylkoth Commodore Commodore

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    :techman::rolleyes:
     
  17. bluedana

    bluedana Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Attempts at humour aside, the eggs line isn't really all that difficult to understand.

    ARCHER: Why should I trust you?
    DANIELS: You like your scrambled eggs soft. Have I ever brought them any other way?

    translation:

    ARCHER: Why should I trust you?
    DANIELS: In the ten or so months we've been out here, I've had a million different opportunities to kill you, Captain, and everyone else on this ship, had that been my intention. Although it would have been child's play for me to poison any one of the dishes that you've accepted from me without question, I haven't done so. In fact, I've done everything you've asked, the way you've asked. That's why you should trust me now.

    It's why the cup bearer to the king was always the most trusted person in ancient times.
     
  18. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Silent Enemy (****)

    Yup, I liked this one. The Shroomies may have been overly hostile one-note villains-of-the-week, but the way that they toyed with Enterprise was unique and entertaining. It was also good to watch Archer's reaction to the attacks and how powerless he is to do anything to stop them. Voyager could have done with a few more episodes like this to help make the Delta Quadrant feel unique, right now the Alpha Quadrant is feeling a lot more messed up than the Delta Quadrant seemed to be.

    The first time I saw the episode I was hoping that the aliens were going to be the Romulans, but it was not to be. :( Everything is better with Romulans, I believe that is the fourth universal constant.

    I wasn't a fan of the b-plot where Hoshi tries to learn Reed's favourite food, it felt very... Neelixy. It was supposed to be light-hearted and family friendly, but instead it was annoying and got in the way of the sense of foreboding the episode was supposed to be about. The scene where Reed misinterprets Hoshi's questioning as an advance was sort of fun, but the rest of it was fairly irritating.

    We never got a name for the Shroomies so I wont count them.
     
  19. Pemmer Harge

    Pemmer Harge Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    :rommie: Correct!:rommie:
     
  20. Bones2

    Bones2 Commodore Commodore

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    Silent Enemy's very good, but the B-plot, though fun in parts, feels unnecessary and shoehorned in. 4* seems about right.