TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    I tend to agree with this as well. The first three MU episodes. Were decent enough, maybe not DSN at it's best but enjoyable all the same. Unfortuantly the last two I found to be rather poor.
     
  2. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Damnit, I forgot the µ symbol. :alienblush:

    I used to agree that the µ-verse was a case of diminishing returns, but now I'm not so sure. What I perceive to be the scale in the drop of quality between Crossover and Through the Looking Glass was more than I was expecting. I'm really annoyed by what they did with µ-Kira's character, she had the potential to be an interesting villain in a similar way as Dukat, but she went from perverse version of Kira in Crossover to a comic-book villain far too quickly. At least Dukat had a few good seasons of development before he went bad.


    Improbable Cause (*****)

    I love this episode. I just love it. I've been waiting for this episode ever since the season began and the recent run of mediocre episodes has just made that wait harder. Because I love this episode. Have I made my opinion on this episode clear yet? ;) I love the characters, and Garak and Odo are absolutely in their element here. I love the brilliant dialogue, especially during the classic "Boy Who Cried Wolf" scene. ("Clever Lad! Charming story." :guffaw:) But what I really love about this episode is how an episode about an attempt on Garak's life could have turned out rather pedestrian, but that didn't happen. It could have been a simple case of the Obsidian Order attempting to kill Garak for whatever crime he commited in order to be exiled, or it could have been about a hate crime commited by a Bajoran terrorist. But no, these characters demand a better story than that, so we get numerous twists that build up to a final revelation of galactic significance.

    Garak blowing up his own shop is one of those brilliant concepts that is not only a great plot device, it's also so very Garak. Is it possible for a human being not to love that character? Pairing him up with Odo was also a great idea, these two characters just click right off the bat, they almost have as much chemistry together as Quark and Odo do. Take the scene in the runabout where Garak posits that there's nobody in the galaxy that Odo actually cares for. There's so much going on there between the two of them underneath the surface. It's almost as if Garak knows the truth about Odo's love for Kira (which doesn't seem possible, but this is Garak we're talking about), but he says completely the opposite, and he does it all to distract Odo to stop him enquiring into his past. At the same time, it's possible that Garak wanted Odo to think that he looked up to Tain as a mentor so that Odo is satisfied enough not to pursue the truth that Tain is his father. Even though that element of Garak's past probably hadn't been dreamt up yet, it still fits well here. Also, while not expressly said in this episode, or the series as a whole, the short scene where Garak talks to Mila does give the impression that she's his mother, or at least a very close bond between them.

    I love the conspiracy angle of the episode. I love how the episode slowly goes from an investigation of an assassination attempt on a former spy to a plot involving two major empires and a secret fleet of warships. Take the scene where Odo meets his Cardassian informant, on paper it could have been a boring expository scene designed to move the plot along in the old Star Trek cave set, but the way it's framed, the use of lighting, the ominous music, all these things add up to create a truly memorable scene. It doesn't matter that the Cardassian informant is little more than a plot device because it's written and directed so well. That guy gets more character development than Ensign Mayweather, and we don't even see his face!

    Overall, I'm rather fond of this episode.
     
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I agree; the scene's an absolute classic. My sister agrees, too; it's one of our shared favourites. :)

    There's also this exchange, which you did mention in your post but is worth pasting in:

    "Or am I wrong? Tell me, is there one person in this universe that you care about? One person that is more to you than just an interesting puzzle to be solved. Is there, Odo... anyone?"

    "If there were, I certainly wouldn't tell you..."

    "And that... would be a wise decision."

    It's good to have reminders that Garak's not a nice person, lest we stop loving him for the reasons we do and start loving him out of the mistaken belief that he's our friend. ;)
    Interestingly enough, when I watched this episode with my mother (who sometimes sits through my sci-fi DVDs when she has nothing better to do), she immediately decided that Mila was Garak's mother. The way the two actors were playing it led her to make it a statement; "she's his mother". So I've always wondered if that was indeed the actors' intention (at least Robinson's), if not the writers.
     
  4. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nothing more needs to be said, this and The Die is Cast are five stars because they so profoundly change DS9, and throw in some amazing characterization and dialogue.
     
  5. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Given that A Stitch in Time expressly states Mila was Garak's mother, I'm sure Robinson intended it to come off that was when he played it.
     
  6. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I think Captain Boday and Vilix'pran get more character development than Mayweather, and we don't see their anything. :lol: At least their lives have developments in them, or so we're told. ;)

    It's a shame we never got the informant's name. There's a Cardassian informant of Odo's mentioned in season seven's Treachery, Faith and the Great River; Russol. It might be speculated that this is Russol.
     
  7. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    Good point. :) I'd not fully comprehended the significance of his being the author when I made my post. Anyway, he certainly succeded in getting the idea across onscreen if my mother's reaction is anything to go on.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Mila-Garak dialog did make enough of an impression on me that I was very much hoping she would show up again in the series, so you can imagine how thrilled I was to see her reappear in S7.

    I'd still like to know who Odo's mysterious Cardassian contact was, though.
     
  9. Emher

    Emher Admiral Admiral

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    Indeed, he is fantastic in that movie.
    I remembered having seen that during it's first airing in Sweden looong time ago in my youth in about 94 or 95. At the time I couldn't really get that into it, I was more into the cool space stuff then dialog and drama. When I saw it again on DVD I was blown away. Such a fantastic episode.

    I even liked it enough that I managed a screening of it in my HS class in connecting to my last year project. My teacher was very impressed about how a sci-fi show could take a concept that very much relates to real life and war traumas and put in a future setting.


    Keep up the good work, TGB, very great stuff!
     
  10. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, I had to click on the link to my own post to remember the context of it. I'd forgotten about that conversation. :lol:

    But that reminds me, I really need to watch that movie again...
     
  11. Emher

    Emher Admiral Admiral

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    If so, see the Director's Cut if possible. Superior cut of the film, it's almost like an entirely different film. And Siddig has more screentime in it.
     
  12. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, not to worry, I bought the Director's Cut on DVD as soon as it came out. Fantastic film. :techman:
     
  13. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    apenpaap--I'm not convinced Dukat isn't evil and self-deluded enough to do what he did in that book. I just have an objection to ruining Iliana Ghemor's character.
     
  14. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Vice Admiral Admiral

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    :( I thought we had all agreed not to use this "µ" stuff anymore. My Midwestern American sensibilities, remember?

    Agreed. That is something that DS9 often does and does well - taking something that at first appearance will be rather mundane and turning it into something big and important (The Jem'Hadar being another example).

    Agreed again. I've absolutely loved that scene since I first saw it during DS9's original run here in the U.S. In some senses, it reminds me of the end of The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. That movie's climax is literally just three guys staring at each for five straight minutes while not saying a single word, and it's literally one of the most amazing things I've ever seen in my life.

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmdAsL1n6q4[/yt]

    How the hell did Sergio Leone manage that?! Framing, lighting and music, that's how. :techman: Avery Brooks had obviously learned from a master when sat in the director's chair this time.
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I always took it that Russol was supposed to be the same informant because the circumstances of their meeting were so similar; Odo goes alone in a runabout to the Star Trek cave set. It's a pity we never got learn more about him, he made quite an impression in this episode.

    What surprises me is that when she showed up again four years later I knew who she was instantly. When Lt Carey showed up in one of the final episodes of Voyager I had completely forgotten who he was, it wasn't until years later that I realised he wasn't a random goldshirt. But I still remembered Mila even though she had only been in one scene, so she definitely made an impression.

    Midwestern Americans and the Greeks are practically the same. :shifty:
     
  16. Paper Moon

    Paper Moon Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with TheGodBen; I always assumed that the informant was suspected to be Russol. It's funny, though, I thought I had read somewhere that that was the producers' intention as well, but I just read through the entry in the Companion, and looked on Memory Alpha, and all I can find is MA's speculation... oh well.
     
  17. DonIago

    DonIago Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not to go off-topic, but I knew exactly who Carey was when he showed up, and given the events of the episode I think I might have preferred it to have been a random character.

    Hell, that even undermined "Endgame" to some extent.
     
  18. InklingStar

    InklingStar Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Improbable Cause is my favorite episode of Star Trek, hands down. Everything about it, from the Shakespearean overtones to the unraveling mystery to Odo and Garak's interactions to the interplay on the Warbird, is top-notch. I especially love the framing of the final scene, where Garak and Tain clasp hands with Odo in the background, flanked by the Romulan Star Empire banner.
     
  19. defiantfan

    defiantfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I remember feeling so glad when they followed up with Garak's history. The writers could have just as easily let "The Wire" be a "brain drugs are bad for you episode" and write more about how Jadzia REALLY is her own person really! But they got smart utilized the extraordinary acting skills of Robinson and Auberjoinois to write great stories that would give us some great shows!
     
  20. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    With regards to Carey (in "Friendship One") I might have cared had he not been absent for so many episode. The role could have been a generic character and it would have made no difference to the episode. Yet only a couple of episodes later Janeway is travelling back in time to prevent the death of only 16(?) more crew she could have gone back a couple of weeks earlier and saved one more.
     

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