TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I like that Mirror Bashir was unlikeable. I actually thought they made certain MU characters, such as Smiley, too likeable. The Mirror Universe is supposed to be full of twisted and evil versions of the Prime Universe inhabitants. We really shouldn't be rooting for either the Alliance or the Rebellion, because no matter who won, the Mirror Universe was going to keep on being a terrible place.
     
  2. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    True, but even with a twisted version of one of our heroes, we should still be able to find something to identify with in them, IMO.

    Take Mirror Spock - he was a twisted and evil version of "normal" Spock, true. However, he was still a man you could respect, even if he was much more morally corrupt than our Spock.

    Mirror Bashir, on the other hand, has nothing like that at all.
     
  3. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    I agree. This is why they shouldn't have gone back to the MU after "Crossover." :p
     
  4. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you assume Mirror Bashir wasn't genetically modified, as seems likely, then it doesn't seem like such a stretch that this is how he'd turn out.

    Besides, I believe the whole point to making him unlikeable was to add a layer of complexity and conflict to the folks we're supposed to be rooting for. Smiley wants a better world; Bashir would recreate the Terran Empire.
     
  5. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I wouldn't go that far. :p
     
  6. DGCatAniSiri

    DGCatAniSiri Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know, honestly, I can't dislike Through The Looking Glass. I just find it fun. On occasion, particularly with a show as plot heavy as DS9 becomes, I enjoy an episode that's there more for fun than for serious drama.

    Also, side note, it's the first episode of DS9 I remember actually seeing, or rather, the first half of an episode I actually saw, since I remember about the last half or so being what I first sat down to watch DS9 with. I was eight or so and I was VERY confused, since I'd seen preview clips from Season 2 and saw Kira as a good guy. I remember thinking it was a flashback.
     
  7. USS Fardell

    USS Fardell Captain Captain

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    Or possibly; the Dal'Rok predated the Occupation and the Sirah just kept it up out of tradition?
     
  8. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Well, if that's true, then the village would have had to be completely spared the ravages of the Occupation. I find that unlikely.

    I also find it very odd that the Occupation is never once referred to in the episode. :wtf:
     
  9. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    I like Through the Looking Glass. To me, the µ-verse started great on DS9 and lost quality with each episode. Crossover was great, TtLG was good, Shattered Mirror was okay, Resurrection was poor and The Emperor's New Cloak was unbelievably awful.
     
  10. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah that's pretty much how I see it. Each time they went to the Mirror Universe well, they came back with something of lesser quality.

    I think that Through The Looking Glass is fun. It's certainly lost some of the nuance from Crossover, but the MU is still an interesting place for me.
     
  11. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I think the law of diminishing returns is an apt description for the Mirror Universe episodes. The only one that breaks that pattern (for me anyway) is Resurrection. And maybe that's only because they don't actually visit the MU in that one.
     
  12. defiantfan

    defiantfan Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I wasn't a fan at all of what they did in the series with the MU but I do like what they've done in the novels (ducking)
     
  13. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    ^I like the mirror universe novels a lot too, even the µ stuff in the relaunch. The only thing in the relaunch I really have a problem with is that stuff with Dukat and Illiana Ghemor.
     
  14. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I had a BIG problem with the Iliana Ghemor storyline when I heard about it. Way to completely destroy every last bit of the impact of "Second Skin" and "Ties of Blood and Water," people.
     
  15. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    I've now caught up with my rewatch. My Crossover episode is damaged on the Season Box Set, but, I have it on The Alternate Realities set, so I skipped past it, so I didn't need to change sets for 1 episode.

    So, when I got to Through The Looking Glass, I popped in Crossover, and then watched Through The Looking Glass right afterwards. Crossover, I really enjoyed, Through The Looking Glass is fairly good, but, not as good as Crossover.

    Distant Voices, I don't have a problem with Julian's secret not being exposed, the characters were parts of his personality and feelings. His secret isn't personality or feelings, it's a part of every part of him, so I don't see why (or how) people would expect it to be portrayed as a character. Most folks die from this kind of attack, Julian's Superior Mental prowess allowed him to win and not die.
     
  16. apenpaap

    apenpaap Commodore Commodore

    Yeah. Not only that, but I also thought it was very much out of character for Dukat. Yes, he is an evil man, a very evil, horrible one even, but he is also a nuanced character.
    Writing him as having imprisoned and raped Iliana for sixteen years was idiotic and detrimental to the character's good sides (which he had, in my eyes, though they were far outweighed by his bad sides), as well as just not something Dukat would do: he is convinced he is a good man and that everything he did was somehow for the better of the people he hit hardest with it. He always claims how benevolent he was in the Bajoran occupation, and let's not forget
    If I remember "Wrongs Darker than Death or Night" correctly, he always gave the women he raped in the occupation lots of money and a better situation and all that to excuse it to himself. To make himself believe he was helping them. I could be mistaken, as it's been a while since I watched that episode. Either way, he always wanted his victims to acknowledge how good he'd been to them. Keeping Iliana imprisoned under horrible conditions for sixteen years is completely and utterly out of character in that light.

    It's a pity, as Fearful Symmetry has one of the coolest cover designs I've ever seen, but it's contents are so poor.
     
  17. DS9 Gal AZ

    DS9 Gal AZ Captain Captain

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    Yes, I have to agree. It would have made more of an impact to see Mirror Tuvok later, when Tuvok Prime was a more established character. And we'd already seen a "rebel" version of Tuvok in the pilot when he was undercover with the Maquis (however briefly). Plus, if I recall, Mirror Tuvok was barely a presence in this episode anyway. Seriously, it's like Tim Russ just decided he wanted a few extra bucks in his paycheck that week and wandered onto the DS9 set without anyone noticing until filming was done, and then they decided it was easier to keep his scenes in than to try and cut them.

    As for the MU in general, I agree with the "diminishing returns" theory someone posted upthread. But while Intendant Kira is my favorite part of the MU, I think my favorite moment is when Mirror-non-hologram-Vic Fontaine is killed. I seriously think that was a shout-out to all the people who hated Vic (like me!). They couldn't get rid of him in the Prime Universe, but at least we got to watch him die here. I actually cheered when that happened!
     
  18. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I loved the randomness of Mirror Vic. And since we're never actually given his name, there's no reason to assume that he's anyone other than the person upon whom the appearance of Vic was based. Heck, maybe it was Felix.

    I tend to agree with the diminishing returns theory as well. I don't have a problem with the Iliana Ghemor arc or how it impacts Dukat's character...frankly I regard it as a nice reminder that no matter how well Dukat may have come off at times, in the end he was a very sick, sick man. But I guess what you think of it ultimately depends on what you want Dukat to be.

    As for Mirror Tuvok...I consider his appearance nothing more than a fun little cameo. Love it or leave it. :)
     
  19. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I didn't mind the Mirror Tuvok cameo. It seemed like one of those "Hey, wouldn't it be kinda neat if..." moments. And it was neat. :techman:
     
  20. Sindatur

    Sindatur The Grey Owl Wizard Premium Member

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    Eh, he was the only current Vulcan regular at the time, it served to show a recognizable Vulcan and what side they were on in the Mirror Universe.