TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Cardassian Yellow Graphs! I like. :techman:

    I'm pretty amazed at how low Behr scored this season, but I can only assume he'll rise through the ranks as the show continues.

    As for The Experiment - I like it, keep it up. It just needed to have the introduction of the baseball in it. ;)

    Oh, and - are you not doing the "What I Would Have Done Differently" for DS9?
     
  2. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Eh... as I recall, Behr was responsible for quite a few of the absolute clunkers in the later seasons (not to mention a number of TNG Ferengi episodes). He's a great producer, but the 'comedy' scripts he writes often leaves much to be desired.
     
  3. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Dude I'm a mathematician and for one thing your graphs need there x- and y-axes labelled. Otherwise the numbers become a little meaningless. Next with histograms what matters is not the curve (sine curve? :lol:) but the spread of frequencies and how they are distributed.

    The histogram can be divided in two partitions; the left part being the poor and average episodes, which are slightly more numerous than the right part being the good and excellent episodes.

    The bottom line: the spread is skewed to the average episodes, and the median (middle; half of the cumulative frequency 19) would be somewhere around the ranking 4.

    Conclusion: from the histogram, and taking the median, the first season of DS9 is somewhat below average.
     
  4. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I've been shaken to the core with the yellow graphs! They're very different! :D ;)

    I remember Ira Steven Behr had his hand in a lot of the Ferengi episodes, so I think his ultimate score may not be as good as some of the other writers. He also teamed up with Rober Hewitt Wolfe and then Hans Beimler after Wolfe left, meaning that his solo scripts just sort of vanished like a Dominion fleet. Will he be represented on the graph like the Reeves-Stevens? :)

    And Peter Allan Fields was a top notch DS9 writer, or at least what I remember was. It's a shame he wasn't there throughout.
     
  5. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    As a history major in college, I can tell you that that all just went right over my head. :p
     
  6. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I too speak not the tongue of the mathematician. Speak simpleton, Ln X :p.
     
  7. MrBorg

    MrBorg Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree with your review, GodBen.

    I also liked the tribute video.
     
  8. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I was going to put the baseball in, but then I forgot. :alienblush: I only remembered to add Nog and Opaka's death in at the last moment.

    I considered it, but I don't think I'd have much to say. I did that for Voyager and Enterprise because I had issues with the structures of those shows and the direction they went (except ENT season 4), whereas with DS9 I'm fairly happy with the direction the show took. All I'd be doing is complaining that the show didn't focus on Bajor enough in early years, or pointing out plot inconsistencies and dropped concepts. I felt like I'd be repeating myself if I did that.

    Oh, this is more embarrassing for me than the time Mike Sussman showed up after I made all those jokes about him. :alienblush: Yes, I should have labelled the axes, but that ruins the aesthetics of the graph, and it's not like as if people actually look at them, they're just there to make me look smart to the simpletons, like history majors. (:p)

    Wouldn't the median be 5? There's 19 values, the median would be the 10th, which would be 5. Or is there some more complicated method of getting the median that I don't know about?

    Also, would the average not be more important than the median in this situation? Yes, there's more bad episodes than good, but the level of badness in the bad episodes isn't as much as the goodness in the good episodes. Or something like that. :confused:

    Nah, Behr gets judged as an individual because he did write a few episodes on his own, the only ones that will share a score are Thompson and Weddle as they always wrote together, from what I remember. Like I said, it's not fair or accurate, it's just a little fun.

    As for Behr's score, while I imagine it will be above average overall, some of the "comedy" episodes will hold him back. He'll probably get a good score in the end, but Moore, Echevarria, and Fields don't have that sort of baggage and will likely top him. In fact, just glancing at Field's list of future episodes, he's in a very strong position to "win" this thing.
     
  9. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, I see how it is around here. ;)
     
  10. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, everyone has their strengths. Mathematicians are good at labelling graphs. History majors are great in bed. I'm good at offending people and getting into awkward situations by saying stupid things. There's only one winner in that group.


    And it was me, because I got to sleep with a history major. Fuck yeah! :beer:
     
  11. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    Just some random info: credits with "&" mean the writers worked as a team. Credits with "and" mean the second person added/modified the script of the previous person.

    Plus he shares writing credit on Let He Who Is Without Sin...
     
  12. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    First I've heard of it, but it bodes well for me. :cool: And I've got a foot in both camps, so I get the graphs too. :D

    Also, the return of the graphs. They are only things I follow this thread for! :bolian:

    (well, and the awesome reviews, but lets not miss out a chance at hyperbole, eh?)
     
  13. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Wow, graphs and everything! My impression of Cardassian Yellow is that it's a bit more orangey but overall, I comment your effort. :bolian: When does S2 commence?
     
  14. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    TheGodBen's chief weapon is detailed graphs...detailed graphs and a great sense of humour...His two weapons are detailed graphs and a great sense of humour...and pictures of Scott Bakula. His three weapons are detailed graphs and a great sense of humour and pictures of Scott Bakula...and an almost fanatical love of Deep Space Nine. Amongst his weapons are....let's just say there are many reasons why we love his review threads.

    But graphs are one of the major selling points. :bolian:
     
  15. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's interesting, I didn't know that, but it does explain why I've seen some credits that use both, which seemed weird to me.

    Really, judging the writers based off their credits is pretty much impossible because it's impossible to know who really wrote what. In the Pale Moonlight's script is credited to Michael Taylor, but it was Ron Moore that wrote the final draft, and Taylor described Moore's version as darker and more profound than his. But still, Moore's not getting any points from me for that episode even though it's possible he wrote some of my favourite scenes in the series, and Taylor's not getting any points from it either because he's only credited with four episodes of DS9, thus falling one short of my artificially imposed five-episode rule.

    When you look at it like that, you realise just how pointless judging the writers like this is. But at the same time, it makes things a bit more fun as it adds a little competition to the graphs. Watching those lines move up and down the graph is like watching a horse-race... maybe. I've never watched a horse-race so how should I know?

    Well... sadly, the sample size that I used to come to that result was 1, which is 1,066 samples short of what I would have needed for the usual 3% margin or error, and it's certainly a far smaller sample size than I would have liked. Also, I have no data on what male history majors are are like in bed, and my scientific curiosity doesn't extend in that direction.

    It is a bit orangey, but when I made it more yellow the whole thing looked wrong. It was either this colour or what I came to know as "baby poo green", so I went with this colour.

    And season 2 should start tomorrow.
     
  16. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Babyshit green is how Bajorans fondly remember Cardassian Yellow.
     
  17. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    Scientific method? You are kidding me. :lol: That won't affect it, I am simply going to take your earlier statement and argue that to the death, as I believe you to be a reliable source and I shall support the evidence with my own ego. ;)
     
  18. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is TheGodBen a guy or gal? Because if TheGodBen slept with a male history major...

    I'm confused...
     
  19. Eyes

    Eyes Commodore Commodore

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    He has no data on male history majors...
     
  20. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, I just said it as a roundabout way of bragging, so if it boosts your ego then at least some good will have come from my immature comment. :techman:

    Then he'd be one very lucky, very happy history major. And I'd be suffering from the mother of all meth comedowns.


    The Homecoming (****)

    This episode's fault is that it's too good. There's so much Bajor/Cardassia stuff in this episode, all of it good, but it's a little jarring and it feels like it missed a few beats in its attempt to pack everything in. This episode contains the introduction of the Circle, the introduction of Li Nalas, the introduction of Minister Jaro, a rescue attempt, the prospect of war with Cardassia, an examination of hero worship, myths and sacrifice for a cause. Also, Quark got branded at some point. It was very enjoyable, I just feel like we skipped the foreplay in the rush to get to the action. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed the ride all the same, and I'm optimistic about where things are going, but can't we just slow things down a little?

    Duet and In the Hands of the Prophets were more successful at addressing similar issues because they took time to explore one or two things and built up to their memorable finales. This episode addresses so many issues that the sub-plot about Kira's strained relationship with the provisional government is buried and the ending comes out of left-field. There's also the fact that the Circle are just sort of there now. Their origins make perfect sense given the events of season 1, but they've suddenly become a major force on Bajor in the five-month or so gap between the two seasons. This episode could really have done with being split into two episodes, which probably wasn't feasible as a three-part story was already very ambitious for Star Trek at that time, proposing to extend it to four would probably have been shot down.

    All that being said, this was still a great episode to watch. Following on from ITHOTP, we're finally getting some real fallout from the death of Opaka. Bajor's failing political system collapsing into civil war is exactly the sort of story the show needed right around now. Li Nalis may be a bit of a goody two-shoes, but Richard Baymer plays the reluctant hero well, which is weird as I can now never forget him playing Benjamin Horne on Twin Peaks, especially that weird plot-line (even by Twin Peaks' standards) where he went insane and thought he was a Confederate general in the American civil war. What I really liked about the episode was how everyone was playing politics with him, from Minister Jaro's refreshingly honest self-serving speech with him, to Sisko's well-intentioned, yet still ultimately self-serving, plea that he stand up and attempt to unite the Bajorans. In fact, the only reason he was rescued at all was because of a political gamble Sisko decided to take, not because it was the humane thing to do. For such an honest, likeable man, the universe sure is cynical towards him.