TheGodBen Revisits Deep Space Nine

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by TheGodBen, Oct 16, 2011.

  1. Shatnertage

    Shatnertage Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ The actress playing Opaka was awesome!

    If they wanted to kill her, it would have made more sense for her to be killed by a member of the Circle--something that had some meaning to the Bajoran arc.

    When I think of Opaka on that planet, just waiting for that Federation medical team to arrive and solve her problem, I get a bit sad. Really, she's just a quick runabout ride away if anyone needs her. She's not dead--she's just in a retirement home. I guess Bajorans aren't susceptible to guilt trips.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That would have been rather improbable as they hadn't even conceived of The Circle yet...

    Frankly, given how awesome, "In the Hands of the Prophets" was and the characters and stories it made room for, I'm just as glad Opaka was a non-issue by that point.
     
  3. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    She did eventually get off that planet in the Relaunch, but she chose not to return to Bajor immediately.
     
  4. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    :biggrin: Another good Season One episode.

    Opaka's "death" was rather poorly handled. But, I do like the idea of getting rid of her in order to make room for someone who is a much more interesting character.

    Though, in hindsight, the idea of holding on to the character until the end of the season is also a great idea.
     
  5. JoeD80

    JoeD80 Captain Captain

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    All it says in the DS9 companion is that Hilary Bader's original pitch was to send a red-shirt down to be doomed and the staff decided they should pick a recurring character instead and someone came up with Opaka.
     
  6. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's quite possible my memory is flawed, and I may even be misremembering a review of "Emissary" that was unimpressed with the actor.
     
  7. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yeah that's what I've read and understand about the situation. It was interesting on the one hand that they were willing to 'kill' the character, particularly as it was done in way that hadn't been done before. It upped the stakes, really. This was only Opaka's second episode though, so the emotional resonance fell a little flat for me. I also thought it was very arbitrary way of killing off the key Bajoran religious figure of the time.

    And I loved Camille Saviola in the role. :biggrin:

    By the end of the season, though, we had Vedek Winn, which was a marvelous direction for the show to go in. In the second season, the writers pulled another u-turn with Vedek Bareil. I remember reading in that case that the writers were planning to install him as Kai, but agreed that it would be no fun having someone who is a friend in that position. So maybe, they had that thought in mind when they were writing Battle Lines too.

    Anyway. Despite the killing of Opaka being a bit glib, the episode is alright. I agree that it does have that planet of the week vibe that makes me think this could have been done on TNG, but would they have killed a supporting character off? It's not an amazing episode, but it holds well against its season one competitors.
     
  8. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    That's the same problem I have with VOY: Friendship One. Both episodes kill off an recurring character that the audience really has no emotional connection with. The difference is that aside from that fact, the rest of Battle Lines is a quality episode, Friendship One isn't.
     
  9. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Eh, I was more invested in Carey, and if anything was annoyed that he'd felt so underutilized for the past few seasons.
    Actually, I felt the VOY writers undermined themselves a fair bit...they'd set up this group in Engineering of people who were easily recognizable, but by the end of S2 the whole thing has fallen apart.

    Not at all helped by Janeway's time-traveling back to when she did in "Endgame". Couldn't have traveled back another week to save Carey from a pointless death?
     
  10. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    I would have rather they killed off Samantha Wildman, as she was the recurring character whose death would have had the most impact for the maximum number of characters. It would have affected Noami, Neelix, Seven, Janeway and the audience. We were much more emotionally invested in her than in Carey, who we had only seen once since Season One. To be honest, when I first saw the episode, I didn't even remember who Carey was. I honestly thought he was another redshirt.

    The same holds true here in Battle Lines. If they had allowed Opaka to be in two or three more episodes (hell, just one more would have been beneficial) it would have meant more for the audience, which is what they seemed to be going for.
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Conversely, I remembered who Carey was as soon as I saw him, and for all intents and purposes I thought Wildman might as well have been dead.

    I agree that Opaka showing up a couple of more times would have upped the ante, I would just hate to see her apperances have any effect on the overall course of the series. Winn was too much fun.
     
  12. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Well, to each their own. :p
     
  13. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I love "Battle Lines," one of the few good S1 episodes.

    Mike from Breaking Bad was in it? Day-aaaam! This is an educational thread! :rommie:

    Even though Opaka hadn't been fully established as a character (by mid S1, how much could they do with a recurring characters?) the actress was charismatic enough that I did feel the loss of her being left behind like that.
     
  14. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The same thing happened to me, it had been so long since I had seen Carey that I had forgotten all about him and was confused why everyone was upset about the death of a redshirt. It wasn't until years later that I put two and two together and realised he was the guy from season 1 that was sent to work on Voyager's secret shuttle and torpedo production facility.


    The Storyteller (½)

    Following the loss of Kai Opaka, old tensions on Bajor re-emerge, threatening to throw that world into civil war.

    Nah, just kidding, they're just randomly about to enter a civil war because the Cardassians moved a river, or something. The key to this dispute is a 15 year-old girl who took control of her region after her father died. It's good to know that hereditary rule is alive and well in the 24th century, it was under a real threat from democracy for a while there. She's very dour and serious and fails to understand to concept of negotiation, but she's lucky as Jake and Nog are on hand to teach her how to have fun, and how to trade one thing for another thing. Yay!

    Meanwhile, O'Brien and Bashir go to a village of children that look curiously like adults, and they demand to be told a bedtime story every night because they're scared if they don't hear the story that a monster will eat them. It sounds like a joke, but it's the actual premise of the episode. I'd compliment the episode for being so subversive in having the child act like an adult and all the adults in the village act like children, but I don't think the episode was that clever. Story this, story that, bless my child, please give me attention, these women want to give you a blowie... As if all that stuff didn't make the townsfolk look bad enough, one of them throws a temper-tantrum and tries to stab O'Brien because he wants to be the Sirah. Then we learn that the Dal'Rok is an artificial construct that was created by the original Sirah because the villagers couldn't get along and kept fighting one another. It's a village of feeble-minded people, is what it is. If I was O'Brien I would have fucked off back to the station and allowed the Dal'Rok to kill them all. Hell, I would have torpedoed the village from orbit just to make sure.

    I'm not a fan of this episode, as you might have been able to gather. This literally is a TNG episode that was adapted to work on DS9, and it shows as none of this fits with the Bajor I know from the rest of the series. I don't like any of the guest characters, someone need to grab them all by the shoulders, shake them vigorously, and shout "STOP BEING MORONS" at the top of their lungs. The interactions between O'Brien and Bashir are the only thing salvageable from this episode from this episode and there weren't enough of them. This one made me pause for thought, though:

    Nyuk nyuk nyuk.
     
  15. Skywalker

    Skywalker Admiral Admiral

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    The only decent thing about "The Storyteller" is that it's the first Bashir/O'Brien episode, though even then they don't really start to take advantage of the characters' chemistry until "Armageddon Game" in Season 2.
     
  16. Distorted Humor

    Distorted Humor Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Two decent things - one Bashir/O'Brian

    Two - Cute Bajorian teen.
     
  17. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

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    Eh, as I recall someone got to it eventually.
     
  18. Ln X

    Ln X Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Don't knock The Storyteller. The best bits were Bashir/O'Brien, and the whole Dal'Rok thing was a wee bit interesting. The Dal'Rok was some sort of morality tale, something which Star Trek does a lot of. Stand united against a common enemy, realise that your have more in common than differences and so forth. I mean I know it's in your face like a big cow pat, but it's no different to Shakespeare (isn't that in your face with the overemphasised drama and monologues?)

    The weakest bit was that Bajoran teenage girl leader, and the whole thing with Jake and Nog explaining to her how to solve her problems was like being told how 2+2=4. The thing that made this episode average (but enjoyable to watch) was Bashir and O'Brien. In particular O'Brien's dialogue saved the whole episode and his reaction to being 'the storyteller' was what made many bits of the episode funny (or at the very least engaging/riveting). I wouldn't say it's the worst of season 1, but it's more average.
     
  19. TheGodBen

    TheGodBen Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The problem is that it seems to suggest that people need mythical beings in order to be civilised, which is a concept I find highly objectionable. Not to mention the fact that the Sirah created a being that causes physical harm to people. He actually comes across as a bit of a conman, or an extortionist. He creates a monster that threatens to destroy the village and he's the only one that can stop it. He uses this power to give himself a privileged position within the community, a position that involves the townsfolk giving him gifts and his choice of the attractive young women to fulfil his sexual desires.

    See, if you think about this episode for a half-second longer than you're supposed to, the scenario is highly questionable. But none of that matters because O'Brien and Bashir don't care, all they want to do is go home.
     
  20. Admiral Shran

    Admiral Shran Admiral Admiral

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    Oh, so you were sent by the Emissary. Well, that makes all the difference. :rolleyes:

    Yeah, that's about it. ;)

    The Storyteller is a bad episode, clearly ripped from the TNG production schedule and transplanted onto DS9. Like TheGodBen said, it has nothing to do with the Bajor we know, even by this point in the series.

    Supposedly, this village has been struggling with this monster for decades because they needed a common enemy to fight against in order to unite them. Ummm.... are we forgetting a non-artificial common enemy that this village would have had for those decades? Here's a hint as to what that enemy was.... CARDASSIANS! Why the hell would this village need the Dal'Rok to unite against during the Occupation?!

    Now I'm not quite as harsh on the episode as to give it 1/10, mostly because I don't think the Sirah is quite as devious as TheGodBen makes him out to be. I'd probably give it a 3/10. It's definitely not the worst of Season One.